The Cat Is Out Of The Bag, Folks! (K-27)

[kstrong]

Just to clarify, Bachmann is not "using the connie chassis." They're building this loco new from the ground up. They know full well if they want to pass a model off as a K-27, it needs to be accurate, or they'll get absolutely hammered by the buying public.

Later,

K

[Curmudgeon]

Holy Smokes!
The engine and tender are almost that long!
Nope.
Probably radius, but, we'll have to wait and see.
The 4-4-0, 2-6-0 Centennial, and 2-8-0 don't either.
Neither do the SD-40, SD-45, Dash-9, probably not the Mallet....

[Bucksco]

Diameter

[Curmudgeon]

Diameter or radius?

[Bucksco]

Just out of curiosity- would a scale K27 be able to negotiate a 4 foot curve ?

[vsmith]

Considering that bachmann is only doing what a whole mess of modelers have already done, namely using the Connie chassis as the basis for a K-27, I would think that whatever the Connie requires, the K will be very very similar .

PS 4 foot dia is A-OK with my lovely little Feldbahn...;-)

[DannyS]

Moving the topic back to the K-27, I have already started saving my pennies, so I can get one when they come out next year! Presuming a K-27 will negioate a four foot radius (eight foot diameter curve), I will have no trouble, as my branch has this radius while my main line is 8 foot radius(16 foot diameter.)
Regards, Danny Sheehan in Oz.

[Bucksco]

I'm glad you guys understand that LGB is a TOY company. Here's to another 125 years!

[Curmudgeon]

Well, we almost got 100% there HJ....

I run semi-scale flanges, they stay on the track OUTdoors just fine.....
Plus, look at the latest Bachmann stuff, check the flange depth, and then compare to the 027 type.....

They don't NEED to be that big, it's just as you said quoting Bucksco:

"2006 will be the 125th anniversary of EPL/LGB being in the toy business."

[RhB_HJ]

Aaaaaaaaaaaah we are back to the R1 Discussion.

If I may quote "Bucksco" (Jack Lynch):

QUOTE: Why are you hesitant about LGB starter sets? LGB has been in the toy business for 125 years . ...........

That sums it up in one sentence!

2006 will be the 125th anniversary of EPL/LGB being in the toy business. R1 or 1100 curves are toy curves! If one likes to run scale models then one does well to run them on scale curves.
There is no reason for the manufacturers producing scale models to make them run on toy curves.

Discussion #2 "Code 332" track.

If you reside in a part of the world where the likelihood of an elephant stepping on your track exists, by all means use the "elephant-proof" Code 332 track.
If you like a better scale appearance give Code250, Code215 and Code197 a try.

Anyone game for Discussion #3? Flanges have to be that deep for equipment to stay on track!?!

[Chompers]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

The R1 rule IS going away, LGB and HLW are the only companies that really adheres to it. Every new large engine by every other manufacturer now requires the large diameter curves, Mostly due to the shear size of the units, a A/C DASH-9 is almost 3 feet long! theres no real effective way to make that go around a 4' diameter curve and without looking like an oversized Lionel train.

I saw LGB's new 2-10-2T loco and thier GG1 last weekend on their R1 layout and while they did make it around the curves they looked very bad doing it. The rear of the 2-10-2 hung over the tracks a good 5 inches and the front and rear of the GG1 were a good 4 inches over the rails. This is after LGB shortened the GG1 lenthwise, meanwhile for about the same $$ USA's new GG1 was correct lenth, far better detailed, and just as reliable. Not to mention that the trend towards wider radius curves has been ongoing now for about 4 years, ever since Bachmann came out with the Connie and Aristo with the big Dash-9.

Chompers, I'm in the same R1 boat your in. Keep in mind that Bachmann makes that stupid track out of its own inertia, it cant stop because it needs something to put into the starter sets, even if 70% of its product line wont negotiate it. Bachmann has put its hands up and said "we know everyone is going to use LGB or Aristo track, so why try to fight it" and concentrated on new loco's for those larger layouts.

Its the same story in HO or N, you cannot buy a Big Boy that will go thru an 18" radius curve in HO nor can you get an R1 capable Big Boy in G, their simply too big, so even if LGB made one, it would look really odd doing so. As it is MTH's Challenger looks really bad going around a 5' diameter curve. This is a 4' foot long engine and tender, the new K will be close to 3 feet overall, Its getting to be like HO or N, if you want to run bigger engines you will need a bigger area to do so, if your tight on space, we'll have to limit what we operate to smaller more modest engines.

Thats just the way its going to be. The trend in the market place is to cater to the large. Larger curves, larger engines, larger spaces. I've given up on expecting more affordble R1 items and am planning to build my own stuff from now on, I'll never see an affordable 1/20 Class A Climax, so I built one, add to that my planned 1/20 Edaville #7 Forney and maybe I'll have the RR I want, its sad but true.

Yeah, that's very true.
I don't really expect a 4' long engine to go thrue a R1 curve.
It would look odd........

.......BUT then again it would be cool to see a Big Boy engine bent into a horse shoe. HE HE HE [(-D] [(-D] [(-D]

oh well
Chompers



Ps. Curmudgeon
why would you say "what ever that is" to Bachman Spec. Mogul. if you knew that yours will go around a 5' diamiter curve??? HUM. [;)]

[vsmith]

The R1 rule IS going away, LGB and HLW are the only companies that really adheres to it. Every new large engine by every other manufacturer now requires the large diameter curves, Mostly due to the shear size of the units, a A/C DASH-9 is almost 3 feet long! theres no real effective way to make that go around a 4' diameter curve and without looking like an oversized Lionel train.

I saw LGB's new 2-10-2T loco and thier GG1 last weekend on their R1 layout and while they did make it around the curves they looked very bad doing it. The rear of the 2-10-2 hung over the tracks a good 5 inches and the front and rear of the GG1 were a good 4 inches over the rails. This is after LGB shortened the GG1 lenthwise, meanwhile for about the same $$ USA's new GG1 was correct lenth, far better detailed, and just as reliable. Not to mention that the trend towards wider radius curves has been ongoing now for about 4 years, ever since Bachmann came out with the Connie and Aristo with the big Dash-9.

Chompers, I'm in the same R1 boat your in. Keep in mind that Bachmann makes that stupid track out of its own inertia, it cant stop because it needs something to put into the starter sets, even if 70% of its product line wont negotiate it. Bachmann has put its hands up and said "we know everyone is going to use LGB or Aristo track, so why try to fight it" and concentrated on new loco's for those larger layouts.

Its the same story in HO or N, you cannot buy a Big Boy that will go thru an 18" radius curve in HO nor can you get an R1 capable Big Boy in G, their simply too big, so even if LGB made one, it would look really odd doing so. As it is MTH's Challenger looks really bad going around a 5' diameter curve. This is a 4' foot long engine and tender, the new K will be close to 3 feet overall, Its getting to be like HO or N, if you want to run bigger engines you will need a bigger area to do so, if your tight on space, we'll have to limit what we operate to smaller more modest engines.

Thats just the way its going to be. The trend in the market place is to cater to the large. Larger curves, larger engines, larger spaces. I've given up on expecting more affordble R1 items and am planning to build my own stuff from now on, I'll never see an affordable 1/20 Class A Climax, so I built one, add to that my planned 1/20 Edaville #7 Forney and maybe I'll have the RR I want, its sad but true.

[Curmudgeon]

Wait a minute.
First, lgb re-introduces Gauge One in 1968.
But, they use a meter as the gauge.
Then, they try to "Americanize" it.....even going so far as painting a red and black 2015D in red and green with a cowcatcher and calling it a 2017D.....all the while using stuff that goes around curves trolleys would be wary of....
And we might just get someone to break that 1100 mold?

Next, whatever do you mean by 10' curves and a Bachmann Spec. Mogul (whatever that is)?
Mine goes around 5' diameter curves just fin.
If you want the foreshortened appearance, huge flanges and articulated drives necessary to accomodate 1100 curves, then stick with something that races around like a mouse.....

When I did "0" in 2 and 3 rail, first thing we did was throw away "set" track and use something with wider curves.

Plus, using 332 rail on a narrow gauge...or even standard gauge....is a hoot.
Especially in photos.

Why aren't you complaining about Accucraft and Berlyn not going around 1100 curves?

TOC

[Chompers]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

Bucksco-
"Everybody wins except those who have a railroad built with smaller radius curves. As larger locomotives and cars are released that require wider radius curves some folks will be left out in the cold unless they want to tear up thier existing trackage and rebuild. Everybody doesn't have room to run a big boy! (or for that matter scale 80 foot Passenger cars)"

Then you don't buy one.
Simple.
The 1100 rule has to go away.

TOC

WHY?!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we(thouse with small curves) don't wan't to tear up our railroads and put in bigger curves.
If Bachman's Spec. Mogul can't go around anything smaller than 10' curves, then why would bachman make it. B'man only makes a 4' curve. does that make sence? build a train that can't even run on your companies track?
I Don't Think So!

[Anonymous]

At the University where I work there is an LGB club, when I first worked there I thought wow, a garden railway club. No such luck, in Preston it stands for Les(bian) Gay and Bi!!
Had to insert brackets, whoo cheeky, to beat the censor.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Curmudgeon]

Bucksco-
"Everybody wins except those who have a railroad built with smaller radius curves. As larger locomotives and cars are released that require wider radius curves some folks will be left out in the cold unless they want to tear up thier existing trackage and rebuild. Everybody doesn't have room to run a big boy! (or for that matter scale 80 foot Passenger cars)"

Then you don't buy one.
Simple.
The 1100 rule has to go away.

TOC

[bobgrosh]

Well. If I stick my nose in here it will probably get whacked off.

But here goes anyway.

I'd love to have a Bachmann K-27.
If it has a real motor, something with 7 poles and ball bearings.
If the wheels are chrome or nickel plated or anything other that black fini***hat wears off in a week.
If the wheels are actually round and don't wobble.
If it picks up power from the rails even when dirty like USA or LGB.
If it is sealed up tight so it doesn't require lube every 1/2 hour, a video tape to explain how to lube it, and a 300 dollar rack of special lubricants.
If it doesn't require gluing parts back on even before the bag is unsealed.
If a tube of glue doesn't become a standard load for a flatcar right behind it.
If I don't have to vacuum the parts from my tracks after every run.


Yes, I'd love to have an accurate scale loco with details to wow over.

But first I've got to know if it runs.
Will it pull an average of 12 cars during daylight hours for most every weekend?
Will it last one season without three spares?
Will it run as soon as I throw the switch every Saturday morning, or will it be a bucket of rust if it rained during the week?
I guess next year I'll know if I get a scale loco that runs outdoors, or I'm going to be stuck with LBG 0-4-0's, 2-4-0's and 2-6-0's.

All right, I'm going to go put on some protective head gear now.
B0B

[Bucksco]

"If those who say they don't care about scale accuracy are really sincere they should hardly quibble if the model was accurately built to the correct scale.
If the manufacturers made all LS models the correct scale, they would pick up a sizeable market they would otherwise miss out on if the models were not scale.
That is a win - win for everybody."

Everybody wins except those who have a railroad built with smaller radius curves. As larger locomotives and cars are released that require wider radius curves some folks will be left out in the cold unless they want to tear up thier existing trackage and rebuild. Everybody doesn't have room to run a big boy! (or for that matter scale 80 foot Passenger cars)

[Curmudgeon]

Hey, Bucksco, here's how:

"I don't care what they do, im stuck with LGB."

BTW, Walsham, there have been several posts from users of "wow factor" trains stating this might just swing them to scale narrow gauge....

TOC

[RhB_HJ]

Hi Tony,

Hear, hear!

I've always had a soft spot for Colorado NG!

Bachmann bringing a K27 and AMS et al having "to scale" cars with really good detail will be very tempting even for a "dyed in the wool" RhB fan.

When the AMS stock car first appeared I suggested at a large Canadian dealer's to set the AMS model side by side with a stock car from another mfg. Oh what a sight![;)][:)]

[TonyWalsham]

If those who say they don't care about scale accuracy are really sincere they should hardly quibble if the model was accurately built to the correct scale.
If the manufacturers made all LS models the correct scale, they would pick up a sizeable market they would otherwise miss out on if the models were not scale.
That is a win - win for everybody.

BTW, I don't see too many references on the undoubted "WOW" factor this behemoth is going to have when compared to similar wheel arrangements in the oddball scales like 1:29. Does this mean it will draw those "I don't care about scale" LS'ers back to proper narrow gauge?

Congratulations Bachmann.

[Bucksco]

That's right! Bachmann! How the heck did LGB get brought into this.........

[Curmudgeon]

But, since the thread was about a Bachmann 1:20 K-27.....one has to wonder.....

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Keeping a straight face and not slamming anyone is the hard part!

Jack.

Keeping a straight face is indeed the hard part
but it's hard to slam anyone with "tongue firmly planted in cheek" , one is too busy keeping from laughing.

[Bucksco]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Keeping a straight face and not slamming anyone is the hard part!

[Curmudgeon]

Here's the deal.
If someone jumps in with no further explanation than "stick with lgb" or "only lgb" or some such blinder-wearing poppycock, then yes, I will give particulars.

If and when both get to the market, we'll compare scale fidelity, street price, even inane things like paint and lettering.

TOC

[Anonymous]

Anything that runs in the garden is a toy/model/scale representation.
Many manufacturers make what they think is the 'dog's bollocks'
Unless you are rich enough to have your own railway ,or assist on another,you are all talking through the top of your heads.
It is a hobby!!!!
(however to some it is a business.)(How do you keep a straight face)

Certain parts of this maybe censored.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: What scale is this?
"Suitable for large scale".
What frequency is your remote?
"Proprietary".

Ha Ha .I really hate to agree with you Dave but you are spot on!!!!
There is hope yet [:D]

[Bucksco]

Believe it or not sometimes it can be a plus not to be committed to being "scale". I suspect that no matter what scale the engine in question gets produced in it's going to alienate a certain segment of the market!
I've built scale models for many years and can appreciate the mentality of the "scale" purists out there. While exact scale proportions matter to many modelers there are just as many folks out there who don't take it quite that seriously and just plain enjoy "playing" with thier toys. Yes ,TOYS. I've always felt that no matter how serious one is about scale fidelity and attention to detail if you take it out and run it in the garden -it's a toy! LGB trains are made to run in the garden- to play with!