Forum not for athe attention challenged

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Dead on Kim,
I knew if I foundered around long enough I could count on one of you guys from the olde country to set things straight!

[Anonymous]

Actually, spirit and level shouldn't be in the same sentence really. I drink spirit, I am not level. In fact if I drink spirit and I am not level then my camber is also off and I feel super elevated - for a while. The world is full of strange things, doctors train for years yet when they qualify they practice. My wife doesn't speak to me for three days and she thinks I am being punished. People know I have a garden railway and they think I am the strange one. Who's to say what is right and is there such a thing as a big bad wolf, not if you are another wolf!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Capt Bob Johnson]

WOW, we go from slow servers to hard porn around here!

[Anonymous]

Thank you Capt Bob, at the risk of being severely reprimanded for straying from the thrust of this Topic (what was it again?), the two definitions I offered were verbatim from "Webster's New World Dictionary." Realizing that wars have been caused over a simple misunderstanding of provencial language, it is good practice to keep a dictionary at hand. As to the original Topic, the Forums site has been experiencing "technical difficulties" which I discovered earlier this morning. That could be a reason for sluggish performance. Speaking of "straying from the thrust of this Topic," it occures to me that popular response to a Topic couldn't be a farther "stretch" than has occured here. Happy rails to you. Ted

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Bob Johnson

......................................Our car has a hood, thiers a bonnet.........................

Bob, [;)][:o)][:o)]

If that's the case, do you believe that in GB and Oz the Big Bad Wolf was going to eat Little Red Riding Bonnet???

Just checking.[;)][:o)][}:)][:D]

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Ted,
Q#1. I'd take a wild irresponsible guess in the affirmative! I suppose it was later discovered that using a substance such as oil having a heavier viscosity permitted time for more accurate readings, and did not separate into many bubbles as easily!

Q#2. My guess is that camber in the sense that it's being used here does not apply. I had always assumed it to be more of the automotive sense, or even the highway engineer's usage. I suspect, considering who brought the subject to attention, that it is used in the implied manner in the nomenclature down under! Understanding what he's talking about, I can shift gears and carry on with the thought.

We colonials use different terms than those in the home country!!! Our car has a hood, thiers a bonnet; we ride the elevator, they the lift! we use the term superelevation, those on the big island in the Southern Hemisphere evidently speak of camber, and I'd suppose that those in Europe and the home country use an altogether different term to describe the same thing!

[Anonymous]

Two questions: 1.) Is a "spirit level" so called because it is a sealed glass tube containing alcohol?" 2.) Is camber a slight convex curve of a surface, as of a road or an air foil? The lack of response to some Topics may be a problem with superfluous nomenclature. Or, peri***he thought, the subject of the topic might be viewed as "common knowledge" and unworthy for comment. If the value of a "Topic" is judged only by the volume of responders, there would be little to recommend them. I wonder if Albert Einstein would have taken umbrage to the lack of response to his "Theory of Relativity?"

[TurboOne]

Hip, hip, hooray Torby, way to go. [:D][:D][:D]

Tim

[Tom The Brat]

Actually, I'm rather surprised that my silly comment thread has lived this long[:D]

Three cheers for thread drift!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Interesting...

Torby posts an observation about how slow Kalmbach's slow as molasis in january server is and we get a debate over Camber and the who's Thread got more replies than someone else's.....[:o)][:p]

..........................................

Vic,

Strictly my opinion, but quite often people only reply to threads they can relate to.
Soooooooooooooo camber didn't tickle too many fancies, perhaps because people didn't understand the term in the first place (not withstanding the High Priest of GR) or they didn't perceive it as a problem since they construct their track differently.

BTW the topic hasn't been hi-jacked, after all you'll need to super elevate your 'puter just as soon as we get warp speed on the Forum.

[vsmith]

Interesting...

Torby posts an observation about how slow Kalmbach's slow as molasis in january server is and we get a debate over Camber and the who's Thread got more replies than someone else's.....[:o)][:p]

Ian, I have no idea why my tiny tiny layout's saga has garnished as much readership as it has, good writing? yeah, right! [:D][;)]

Mayday! Tower Mayday! This topic has been hijacked![:D][;)][:p]

[bman36]

Ian,
I am carrying my reply over to another thread related to the issue of "Camber" and our lines. Rgds eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Ian,
I'm with you on the track. I use a 3' spirit on the length and a 6' for side to side. I also have a straight track in when I am moving from one curve to the opposite so there are no rapid transits for the wheels. I don't run fast enough to bother about camber but you have to be careful with it. The elevation has to start on the straight before the curve and finish on a straight afterwards so there is a flowing transition for the wheels from horizontal to whatever degree of elevation is built.Well, that's how I see it.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Yes well Brian you are quite right and you are only espousing my own sentiments; that if you don't like something give it a miss and go on to something else, like Brussel Sprouts.

However I am pleased that some people have taken an interest in a subject that will affect everyones layout.

What I have said about getting your camber consistently falt is importan and i would be interested to know if anyone has actually put a little ( 3" to 4"') spirit level across there track or just talk about it. I do all the time whan i am laying track and i do not aim for a camber on purpose at all.

This entire subject gets ten times more important if a set of points (switches) are involved. either the switch itslef or the approaches to it.

Well here we are with a genuine topic to do with properly running our trains, is anyone interested enough to go out and check their layout and come up with a genuine opinion about a proper technical subject to do with our hobby. Or has evryone got perfect tracks and never suffer an unexplained derailment or discoupling!

If I am right a few will but most wont.


Rgds ian

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Alllll right, Dude!!!!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Bob Johnson

Actually I let this one slide a couple of days to see what kind of answers arose!

Torby, I agree with you for a change! I find it takes longer for this server to shift back to the subject board or to download a thread than it does with the other forums! Perhaps that's a price of popularity. It could also be (I can't resist this shot) that it takes time to wade thru all the BS to get to the subject matter. (Don't bother, remember---I surrendered and said I'd go with the flow!)

Bob,

Come to think of it, I should have put my "camber = super elevation" stuff in a separate thread. For fear of getting drowned in the BS.[;)][:o)][:o)]

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Actually I let this one slide a couple of days to see what kind of answers arose!

Torby, I agree with you for a change! I find it takes longer for this server to shift back to the subject board or to download a thread than it does with the other forums! Perhaps that's a price of popularity. It could also be (I can't resist this shot) that it takes time to wade thru all the BS to get to the subject matter. (Don't bother, remember---I surrendered and said I'd go with the flow!)

[bman36]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

I thought you meant that the people involved are a bit short on grey matter. Except for about 6 people i would say that they are. Some of the really poor subjects that have got a lot of attention leave me wondering about many of the contributors. Except for these ut 6 people and they know who they are i would say their is a defintaie shortage of people with real lives on this forum.
look at all the contributors to some very prosaic subjects we have had and the minute you get something that requires abit of knowledge hardly anyone makes any comment at all.

Lets look at a few examples.

My query on camber attracted virtually no one yet this is a very serious and hard to qualify problem that nearly everyone has and many don't even realise it. It causes many derailments and unexplained problems.

Compare this to the response about Brians poor old rabbit and Vics ever shrinking railroad. Both interesting enough but the response was hard to understand.

Rgds Ian

Ian,
With all due respect these are my observations. Many have complained about the coffee shop type threads to no avail. Though I really have no use for participating in such a thread I have never posted as such. To say someone has no real life based on their posts I would consider a wrong judgement. What is important to one person may or may not be important to another. That my friend is what makes us all individuals. Sometimes in a person's life there comes a time to post a matter of the heart which others may not be able to relate to or agree with. Correct me if I am wrong but I feel the issue here is the lack of response your thread received. Take a look in my past threads. Many received little response at all. Could be that others were just not interested in replying. My case in point here has been mentioned by others already...not interested?, don't like the thread?, simple...just don't read it. I feel I have built a good relationship here with many, yourself included. If I personally don't reply to your threads, all that means is I feel that I did not have anything to contribute. Nothing personal at all. I still enjoy posting here and plan to continue. A wise man will receive rebuke. I consider you to be very wise from what I have read. All the best. Rgds eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

I was going to say something here but my attention wandered. Still, nice day.
Cheers,
[%-)]
[tup]

[Tom The Brat]

I've become a fanatic about wheel gauge.

As a kid with N gauge, I got very used to absolutely flat track with no variation. My Aristo locos are pretty tolerant, but my Bachmann Annie will find any imperfection for me.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Torby

[img=left]http://www.trains.com/community/forum/icons/smilies/icon_smile_dunce.gif[/img=left]Oh. I can say something vaguely intelligently about camber. I was wondering how he got the wheels tilted...

Some do it, most don't. I would think it only applies to a high speed mainline and isn't something the N&D would have intentionally. You'll want to be careful with switches. A turnout can be a headache when there's side forces pushing the wheels to one side or the other. That's why they say, "check to see if it's level" when somebody has a troublesome turnout.

Hi [;)][:D][:D]

While I'm not the High Priest, Guru or Puhba of Garden Railways, fiddling and diddling with model railway equipment for 52 years (and counting) has taught me a few things. One of them I learned very early on: track works best when laying flat. This may seem obvious to everyone, however looking at lots and lots of track plans, pictures and right up close model railways I'm always amazed how people don't see the potential trouble spots.

Lets just mention a few that apply to Large Scale: Reverse S curves built with R1 snap track, using R1 turnouts that lead into a grade change and a S curve.Trying to "make things fit" and thereby putting tension on the track which will result in a) kinks in the track work; b) buckling of the track since one of the rails will most likely be a different length; c) unintended super-elevation which will find its own geometry (BTW never the most suitable one); d) omission of leaving sufficient gaps and/or other means for expansion.
Other sources are the track gauge and the wheel gauge, those two get checked as a matter of course in the smaller scale but forgotten on LS, not to mention the huge tolerance spread there is between the different mfgs and of course the "very generous" tolerances the NMRA stipulates.

In Ian's case this means laying track in the summer heat because it can't get hotter than middle of the summer.[;)][}:)][;)]
The track on my HOm layout (long dismantled) was handlaid in the summer heat, since it was in a large room above the garage it was plenty hot (30ºC+). Running temperature in the winter was 20-21ºC.

BTW if one applies good model railway practices along with a few things one learns from the prototype - expansion/contraction is one of them - it is not difficult to get track work which works well. For those who haven't observed this yet: on the proto there are transition curves both in the horizontal and the vertical plane, this also applies to super elevation.

To find out how your track behaves I suggest you mount a few 10" pieces of strip wood vertically to the ends of cars (exactly perpendicular and in the center) and see how they rock and roll down the track. Just don't try this in tunnels and under bridges.[}:)][;)][}:)][:D][:D]

[Tom The Brat]

[img=left]http://www.trains.com/community/forum/icons/smilies/icon_smile_dunce.gif[/img=left]Oh. I can say something vaguely intelligently about camber. I was wondering how he got the wheels tilted...

Some do it, most don't. I would think it only applies to a high speed mainline and isn't something the N&D would have intentionally. You'll want to be careful with switches. A turnout can be a headache when there's side forces pushing the wheels to one side or the other. That's why they say, "check to see if it's level" when somebody has a troublesome turnout.

[Rastun]

Ian,

I can't say I remember the thread but that does make sense that if the track is out of level side to side it could cause some problems. The only reason I could see someone doing it on purpose was if they where running at extremely high speeds and the needed to more bank the corners to keep the train on. Now most people wouldn't do that but at a large enough curve in mainline modelling a slight bank could have been done.

Later,
Jack

[Anonymous]

Jack Verducci is the high priest of Garden Model railways as far as i am concerned and he refers to it as camber; so as far as I am concerned camber it is.

Now just see how interested people really are in model railwys as opposed to talking about rubbish.

What about getting a small spirit level and going out and seeinhg how level your tracks are from side to side. Finite numbers aren't necessary if the bubble goes off the scale you have a camber problem, if it goes over to one side but not off the scale you may have a problem.This may be doing you more harm to smooth running than you ever thought.

I reckon it causes more trouble than you ever know and clear it up will make your layout much more reliable as far as stuff ups and derailments are concerned and also unexpected uncouplings.


Rgds Ian

[TurboOne]

I have high speed internet, and rarely have to wait for it. I do open multiple windows but more for seeing the forum and writing in another window.

HJ, thanks for the explaination, I didn't even know what camber meant in this sense. All I know if I put up my track, my train runs.

Tim

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Torby

[img=left]http://www.trains.com/community/forum/icons/smilies/icon_smile_dunce.gif[/img=left]I don't remember your camber post, but it sounds like something I couldn't have answered intelligently anyhow.

4 browser windows.... Not a bad idea! Right now I have 5 but I hadn't thought of putting Aristo in one, MLS in another and Garden Railways in a third.

Welllllllllllllllllllll, you probably could have answered it if the "camber" would have been termed "super-elevation". (Intentional or unintentional)

"Camber" in the NA sense is usually used in road construction and generally refers to the "crowning" of the road i.e. sloping from the center to either side. And of course in automotive parlance for the tilt, either in or out of a wheel from the perpendicular.

How this applies to track work I'd like to read! [:)][:)] And how it creates a problem I'd like to know, too. As far as I know there are two planes in trackwork a) the longitudinal and b) the transversal. You get the two aligned as required and you're in business. Well, at least that's what the 12"=1ft railways do or I think they did, last time I checked. [;)][:)][:)]

BTW you can have even more windows open, just as long as you remember which is which and what you were looking for. And that you put the kettle on to make some tea.[;)][:)][:D][8D]

[Tom The Brat]

[img=left]http://www.trains.com/community/forum/icons/smilies/icon_smile_dunce.gif[/img=left]I don't remember your camber post, but it sounds like something I couldn't have answered intelligently anyhow.

4 browser windows.... Not a bad idea! Right now I have 5 but I hadn't thought of putting Aristo in one, MLS in another and Garden Railways in a third.

[Anonymous]

Way to go Ian, shoot from the hip and thank goodness I replied to your camber post!! I have to admit, it has been a bit slow around here lately, but that's life. Now, if I can remember where the kitchen is I'll go and have a cup of coffee[:-,][%-)]
Cheers cobber,
Kim
[tup]

[RhB_HJ]

Hey Ian,

Nice going!

Don't be surprised if you get a bushel of completely non-RR related posts sent your way. [}:)][:)][:)][:)]

Torby,

It isn't any slower or faster than usual.

BTW, recommendation for those with the ADD problem; open four windows in your favourite browser with a different RR forum in each.[;)][}:)][:D][:D]

Then you can change instantly when you feel the loading time gets a bit slow for your taste. And while you're at it, make sure you enroll in a "Speed Reading" course, so that you get the max benefit.
Now, how you retain all that information is your problem, same with making sure to post the correct reply in the appropriate thread. [}:)][}:)][;)][:o)][:o)]