are high track prices keeping people from entering garden railroad

[jmozz]

every person i try to get interested g scale say the price of track would stop them. but most of them liked the idea of scracth building their own trains jmozz

[Curmudgeon]

What are they paying?
Aluminum Llagas is $18.40 for a six-foot section.
TOC

[cabbage]

Peco SM32 is £5.75p per yard.

regards

ralph

[TurboOne]

HO is $0.60 per 9"
O-27 is $0.00 per foot.
good G is about $3.00 per foot, but outside it lasts. Seems pretty good value to me.

Tim

[Marty Cozad]

If you buy right , i don't think I've payed over 2.42 per ft for Aristo's 332 brass and thats with shipping. Plus i tell folks you buy alittle each year. Much cheaper than a jet sky. Look at the price of a dinner and a movie for the whole family. Now we stay home and grill out and watch the trains. heheheh

[Anonymous]

You get what you pay for, simple as that. Another way to look at it is work out what you can get into an area, say 5yds x 3yds. In N that would fit an amazing set up and would cost a fortune to fill, In HO still a good size and again a dozen trains costing loads of cash again. In G probably one circuit, perhaps a switch or 2 and a couple of loco's + cars/coaches. In fact our scale probably works out cheaper at the end of the day!
Hi Cabbage, nice part of the world you come from.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[kstrong]

I think more than the price of track is the perception that a "proper" garden railroad need 1000' or more of the stuff. Like the current motive power heading towards the "bigger is better" side of the continuum, the size of the garden railroads seems to be headed in the same direction. That, I think, is the biggest faux pass that we as a hobby can make.

There's no reason that a railroad has to have x number of feet of track. Some of the most delightful railways I've ever seen have less than 100' of track. What happens otherwise is that folks build these expansive empires, then realize they don't have the time or energy to maintain it. I've been there! I had 600 feet down in the back yard, with little time to really do anything with it. When I did finally have time, I spent it removing the 3' tall weeds that had taken over. I'm here to tell you, it ain't fun! To borrow a phrase, "it's a helluva way to run a railroad."

I always advise people to start small, and build out as time and energy permit. That inherently keeps costs down as well. Spending $450 for 150' of track for a season's work isn't going to be anywhere near as painful as spending $3000 for 1000'. You can start small, see how much time you have to invest in the construction, and grow the railroad from there. And if you find it's not for you after all, you're out a far smaller amount of money.

(My suggestion for folks looking for cheap track, look for the aforementioned folks who bought 1000' of track, and are ripping it out in frustration. Evil? Perhaps, but if we can benefit from the mistakes of others...)

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

I do agree with you mate the high price of trach definitely keeps people away from our hobby. What is ore it inhibits the construction of railways that we would like to have.

Luckily here in Australia oir club got sick of LGB high prices bought their own die and they make their own and it is about the best quality of any i have seen including LGB and Aristo.

My last shipment I got 120 feet for A$550.00 in kit form which i love as i can bend it to my requirements and lengths which once you have started doing it is the only way to go.

So $550 X 0.79 /120 ft = US$3.62 per linear foot. or $550 X0.41/36.6 = GDP 6.16 per linear metre.

This looks to me to be a very cheap and satisfying way to go.


Rgds Ian

[Marty Cozad]

Kevin, bigger is better, otherwise you'd be scratch building N gauge.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Marty Cozad

Kevin, bigger is better, otherwise you'd be scratch building N gauge.

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

Marty, if their were deeds to Garden Railroads you could get a pretty nice loan with it as colateral[;)]

The only reason I want a big loop is so I can enjoy the RR from either the soon to be built front and rear porches. The little bit of track that would connect them isn't that much.

[TurboOne]

I think the saying goes

"How do you eat an elephant ?"

One bite at a time.

Same with track. Got my little circle plus. It will grow. It rained this weekend, everything grows in the rain here, why not track ? [:)]

Tim

[Kiwi Down Under]

Unfortunately, in NZ, being a small country, as garden railways nuts are a very small bunch there is not the market and most people that i speak to dont even start because of the cost of the track and locos etc.

Also unfortunately this goes the same with all model train stuff and it seems less and less are doing it. Kids mightget a basic set for christmass but the cost of add ons is more than pocket money.

I suppose costs, and room available must be themain negative factor as whenever there is a model rail show it seems thousands attend, so you would think some would start.

I work on the principal, buy it or make it, but seems like most now want ready made and are not prepared to invest the time and effort to try and make it themselves. Its a shame really, that a generation of doing something with their hands is passing and now is seems there are more cheque book modelers.

No problem with that, but if the skills to do it yourself are not passed on, once there gone, there gone.

The grandsons visit and may spend 10 minutes or so on the trains then spend hours playing starwartype of games on the computer. Unfortunately, after they finish playing, exactly what have they got left?. Absolutely nothing, the only thing they may have gained is some dubous key board skills.

While prices are high, poeple wont start.
I found an alternative way, ( www.gscalechuffchuff.com ) but instead on money it takes time and effort.

Tony

[markperr]

The short answer is yes. But anyone who complains about the price of track, probably hasn't really done their research to find out the cost of the average G-Scale locomotive!

Mark

[Anonymous]

it has made me stay with my brass track. can't afford the SS stuff i cant spend that SS money with the brass down. my train's run fine on aristo brass 7 or 8 yrs.any hobbie you want to get into is high priced.
[2c]

[Anonymous]

I have three kids and a tight budget. I looked into the cost of track and there was no way that I could tell my wonderful and understanding wife that I needed $$$$ for just track.
So, I made my own track from using Tony's method and is working quite well. It got me started and it was very affordable. If it weren't for Tony I'd still be dreaming about it. - thanks Greg

[Anonymous]

No one seems interested in our Aussie answer; it is the best way to go for me and i agree that high prices are holding things back.

The price of rolling stock and locos is so prohibitive here in Oz , I just cant afford it.

I am buying normal rolling stock fro e bay and i am getting locos from USA or Europe.

The prices they are asking is quite incredible I think I saw A$ 4000 for a Mikado or something equally fantastic, who could afford it ?


Rgds Ian


Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to say thankyou to Tony for sharing his track making methods. I remember a similar method being employed for 3 1/2 and 5 inch gauges with plain steel bar being used for the rail, but I never thought about using this method for the smaller garden scales.

[TurboOne]

Awesome layout Tony. Like the track making idea. Also your garden looks great.

Take care

Tim

[vsmith]

I would say not just high track prices , but high everything prices could easily scare away a newbie.

It wont help when a newbie comes into a hobby shop, sees the full retail price LGB stuff most LHS carry and then reels back at the $$$$ they ask for them. Most LHS also list bmann at full retail price also so that Annie is listed at $350 as well as a Bmann starter set is also +$350. Thats very sobering to anyone particularly if your coming from another gauge and are used to less expensive items. The track prices are just the final slap in the face.

I trolled ebay before I got my first Toytrain Porter. It took me a while of lurking before I found HLW's low cost lineup, I have since devoted myself to cheapness, so to speak, by not allowing myself to spend too much money on my layout. I had to educate myself where to look ,locally and internet, what shops there were and which were worth shopping at or ordering from. I bought my track one box at a time, sometimes only a few pieces at a time, until i had enough to fini***he layout, it took a long time, but patience is a virtue in model RRing.

I feel most modelers are unwilling/too lazy to do the research to find cheaper/inexpensive sources for their supplies. They want to get in, get it, and get out of the LHS in one trip, so they might get hosed by the high prices when a little research could have saved them big $. Yes I know we have to support our LHS, but my support, and my wallet, can only go so far. The competition is out there and the LHS does have a responsibilty to itself not to ignore that, the better shops I go to are primarily mail order shops, so they are able to meet or beat any ot the other LHS's that are full retail only.

[Anonymous]

My outlook is just the opposite to Vic's I am looking for something better and am prepared to pay for it but, I do not buy very much. What i have is pretty good quality and standard but I don't have much as far s quantity is concerned ie quality beets quantity as far as i'm concerned.


rgds ian

[tangerine-jack]

I understand the prices down under are prohibitive, and I like the idea of making your own from dies. But in my part of the USA, I can go to the LHS and get brass track at $5.00 a foot. Now I can look at that one of two ways, one is that $5 is an investment in something that I want and will bring enjoyment, or I can say %#@$ and walk out the door. I would imagine most newbies take option two. I personaly prefer option three, which is probably only good in N America, bargan shop 'till you drop. I'm getting my track for around $2 a foot from Ridge Rd in NY. Good company, great service. At that price, I don't worry about it, I just get what I want. With lots of competition, option three is a good bet.

Anyway you look at it, rolling stock and locos are a slap in the face to someone used to paying $100 for a really great HO loco. $100 in the garden gets you maybe a box car and some Kadee couplers. A decent loco will set you back around $3-400 or so. Something very nice would be over a grand and then some. I think that scares away more people than track prices.

I'm sure most newbies don't know that you don't need a lot of track for the garden. I started with about 80ft of track, now I am adding on another 100ft and a few sidings. The garden grows as the budget allows.

Thats my 2p.

[oX)]

[underworld]

tangerine-jack Can you give us more information on Ridge Rd?????

underworld

Easter Easter Easter Easter Easter!!!!!

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[TurboOne]

Great advice Matt. I have about 20 feet in my small loop. 1 cheap newbright engine. I like the USA idea AB for under $300. Will keep searching. Someday a full working cab forward with steam and all would be nice but not at $6500. Under 2k and maybe.

Tim

[Matt/Wisc]

QUOTE: Originally posted by underworld
Can you give us more information on Ridge Rd?????

Hello all,

For more information about Ridge Road Station and the products that they offer; use this link:

http://www.ridgeroadstation.com/

[Kiwi Down Under]

Have just read the Ridge Road Station above, and you lot make me sick!
$17.25 for a switch that , if I did not make my own, would cost me over $120. I hope it all rusts. May you be infested by a thousand fleas.
Now I have said that, I feel a lot better.
I will go away and sulk and throw my dummy in the dirt.

Tony

[ICRRfanfortlife]

Does anyone have a source for SS rail ?

[Anonymous]

I've figured out how do deal with the price of track. COCRY 250 aluminimum track + spikes + ties runs out at just under $1.00 a foot. Ya handlaying track is hassel, but there's where the hobby side comes in. I figure I'll save money two ways. First it's less per foot, and the empire is sure to have less track if it's more effort than just doing snap together track.

I think (I'll know more this week) that I have found a viable way to do ladder style road bed for around $0.70 a foot. I hope to lay about 20feet this week. I'll know if my idea works.

The cost of locos is what scared me off. But i'll just go slow, and use some of what I safe on track to buy the locos and RS with.

[nalts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iaviksfan

I have three kids and a tight budget. I looked into the cost of track and there was no way that I could tell my wonderful and understanding wife that I needed $$$$ for just track.
So, I made my own track from using Tony's method and is working quite well. It got me started and it was very affordable. If it weren't for Tony I'd still be dreaming about it. - thanks Greg

Hey all-

The short answer to the above question is probably, yes, the cost of track (power, rolling stock, etc) is most likely keeping people away. When ever I tell people my plans, their first reaction is, "Oh, that stuff is way too expensive."

I plan on laying my own track this summer as I should be able to save a little $$ in the process.

Chris

Edited to say: Found out Tony was talking about [:D]

[tangerine-jack]

Hey Tony, take a pill! I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of selective shopping and buying cheap. Just one more benefit of living in the greatest country on the planet.[tup]

I've been dealing with Ridge Road for some time and I can't say enough about what an outstanding company it is. I usualy get my merchandise in the mail 3 to 5 days from the time I place my order. Top notch all the way.

[oX)]

[Anonymous]

I have found that high track costs are a great discouragement to potential new garden railroaders.

I bought 144 ft of track at a total cost of $615 + $55 shipping + $0 sales tax = $$670. That is about $4.65/ft. This is LGB track. If I had bought this at my local hobby shop, it would have cost $836 + $0 shipping + $73 sales tax = $909. This is $6.31/ft.

On-the-other-hand, I found a Bachman starter kit (engine, sound tender, and three cars) for $129 + tax at a discount store. This is very cheap, and it easily pulls everything and more up my 3 percent grades. Of course, it was only available for a short time, and I will have a merry Christmas all year.

A decent transformer will run another $70-100 (??).

Old hands have lots of ways to save money on these items, but beginners usually just go out and buy at a hobby shop or online. So, a beginner, who doesn't even know how he'll enjoy it, is facing quite an investment. (And we haven't started to talk about plants and buildings.)

I've often thought that manufacturers and hobby shops would be wise to sell track at the minimum possible. This would create a much larger market base for buildings, figurines, couplers, and lots of other accessories.