Is it normal for an LGB engine to struggle on an incline?

[Morar]

I'm new to this G scale so I appologise in advance if I'm asking a silly question.

I bought an LGB starter set at Christmas for one of my boys ( http://www.rrstation.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=20572442%21205&csurl=%2FiStar%2Easp%3Fa%3D29 ) set it up indoors and it worked wonderfully. We added a few wagons and the engine pulled it all easily.

Now that it is mid-March in CA we put it outside on the patio....and innevitably started adding track. So now I have a 10 foot oval wiht a siding and passing section. The long axis runs up and down the patio from the house to the garden.

Now since the patio is angled for rain runoff, the train runs uphill in one direction and down in the other.

As soon as we started running in this configuartion we discovered that the engine had difficulty pulling anything up the "hill" even though the angle is perhaps only 3 to 5 degrees. A contributing factor may be that the patio is Connecticut Bluestone which has an uneven surface so the track doesn't lie perfectly flat.

The wheels chatter and spin until it can get some grip and move forward. Or until one of my sons gives it a push.

Is this normal (the chattering, not the pushing) ? Can I add another traction tyre to an LGB? Should I get a heavier engine? Any suggestions?

Any comments or recommendations would be very welcome!

[Anonymous]

If the starter set is as you suggest 1 engine, 1 wagon and 1 cabbose, it is not normal to struggle with that on 3-5% grades.

I do not know about the stone you mention.
How un-even is the surface? All garden railway trains should be able to handle slightly uneven joints. But if there is very big dips it is possible the leading wheel is rising up and hitting the frame or cow catcher, and actually jamming rather than the loco just running out of traction.

Does it stop and wheel slip in exactly the same place every time, and is that one of the dips between two high spots in the stone?
If is is, try to put some strong cardboard or thin wood under the up-hill section so it is an constant up-hill grade, rather than big dips and hollows. If it goes Ok up that then your problem was the stone.
Can you try running the train the other way around the oval and see if it gets any further up the hill before is stops - if it does that is also likely to be the stone, rather than engine.

Just ideas to work out if the engine is at fault, of the patio.

Glen.

[Anonymous]

[#welcome] Try what Rocky says and let us know.

And there are NO silly questions here! Enjoy and ask away!

[grandpopswalt]

I'd expect it to pull the 3% grade without too much difficulty, but 5%, I'm not too sure.

Walt

[Anonymous]

hi Morar
While no familliar with th particular set you are talking about the following thought occures based on my expierience.
and that is that the locomotive being a Christmas set one, is that it may actualy be lighter than the std 2020 Loco which I have had hauling eight 4wh wagons.
So my first question is the locomotive similar to the little green steamer from the European start sets??.
Second the patio surface is less than an ideal running surface for it as it sounds like you are using a tempory set up for now.
I would sugest some planks wide ehough to suport the track and thick enough to be self uporting and some plastic wobble wedges
so that the track can be leveld across the rails and as far as possable along the length
of the track.particular attention payed to the track joints please once that is achieved, it will run better.
Then it is a case of experementing with the slope of the grade to see if the angle has anything to do with the problem the very uneaven stone surface is definatly not helping so cure that first.
However in an ideal world I would sugest the real cure is dump the temp set up and build a permenat set up where propper attention can be given to line level and grade angles[:)] because knowing the track is right then other things can be looked at as the scource of the problem
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi Morar,
This definately sounds like a track thing rather than the loco. I started with a Stainz + two coaches starter set and I had that little engine running up some horendous inclines to see what it would do. Back in those days when I used to take the track up after every session I used the LGB copper paste for conductivity, a blob in every coupler and you have to ensure that, as said, the track is not dipping trying to follow the contours of your patio. In the UK double glazing window fitters use little plastic wedges for leveling the glass in windows and we can buy these by the bagfull from DIY stores, great for the track levels on temporary set ups. If all else fails cut some timber to compensate for the incline. Another thing is the power pack, if it's the tiny LGB one it may just be cutting out under load from the incline No matter what, you and your boys have fun!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

It sounds to me to be a traction problem. I have an old LGB Mogul that has this same problem. I have one area of my layout where it pulls up a 3% grade while going around 8' diameter curves. I can only pull 2-3 cars with this engine. If I add more cars, it causes the engine to stop on the grade with the wheels slipping on the track.

Leveling the track (as others have pointed out) will likely help since uneven track could result in only 3 wheels being in contact with the track which reduces traction.

Adding weight to the engine might also help.

You could also look into reducing the load the engine is pulling. Are you loading anything on the cars (i.e. adding more weight)? If so then you are increasing the load the engine has to pull. You could also try lubricating the wheels on the cars to reduce friction (LGB Maintenance oil, part # 50019). Just be careful, a tiny drop on the axle portion of each wheel is sufficient. You might also want to examine the engine and cars to make sure none of the wheels are binding or rubbing since that would also add friction.

Jon

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen lets not talk around in circles; this is a specific problem and specific details are required to make a proper and correct evaluation.

My track is properly laid and ballasted; all gradients are properly calculated, this 3 to 5 % is just not good enough, and no mention has been made of the curve involved with said gradient ,which has a greater effect than you would imagine.

So a Stainz loco out of an LGB starter set will pull 2 normal starter set carriages plus a post office with ball bearing wheels up a 4 % gradient and around an R3 curve, without wheel slip and with ease. add a third carriage and it will still do it but with some wheel slip around the curve.

My Stainz is now double heading with a powered tender and it will pull 5 carriages plus a post office up 4 % and around an R3 curve. As a result of MTS technology it memorises the track and the more it goes around the better it does it.

The hard test is stop it on the rise and see if it will start at all or even better start without wheel spin.

Get your track properly ballasted and properly in position, including proper camber; measure the gradient properlyy. The rise in centimeters divided by the distance in meters will automatically give you the % gradient. ie 20 cm / 5 meters = 4 %.

Hope this helps.


Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

Something that I found that works good for a temporay base for the track is the styrofoam insulation panels that come in 1' x 4' sections. They are cheap, less than 5 bucks for a bag of them, light and easy to handle. They give you a smooth base to work from. Not good for permenant, but for a temp test setup they work great.

[TurboOne]

[#welcome] have you tried just runnning the engine by itself and see what happens ? If it works add a car at a time and see what it can handle. All the above recommendations are great. Have a good time on the forum and ask away. Hope you and your kids have a blast with the train.[8D][8D] What part of CA are you in ?

Tim

[Morar]

Thanks for the tremendous feedback . After much investigation I decided that the grade was not the problem, nor the surface I was running on (though I'm sure it did not help).

I took the engine to Talbots in San Mateo, CA to see what they thought. The problem and solution were actually quite simple.

Turns out the electrical pick-up shoe on one side was bent just enough to raise the wheels so they could not grip the track properly. A few minutes with a screwdriver and some pliers solved the problem.

All would have been fine but in the process of investigating the grade problem I had moved the track to the side of my house where I have a large flat concrete area. Now the track I had simply did not look large enough and I ended up investing in another 12 feet of track. This is such an adictive hobby!


Again thanks for all your help.