Hi Guys!,
As many of the rest of you have done, I too have gone through the gauges (primarily N) and have made the decision to sink a rather large amount of money into a garden railway.
I know that I will have many questions in the future although the one that seems really pressing at the moment relates to switch dependability and power systems. That being said, the question I have is if there are certain product that tends to be better that others (brand-wise), and how big a power supply for roughly 2-3 trains and 30'x60' outdoor layout?
Thanks in Advance,
Mike
I am an analog dinosaur with block switching, Having said that, I will let others talk of the many different power control options available. I have been running up to 3 trains for a dozen or more years on a ten amp power supply/throttle with no problems. Main layout is 12 x 35 ft with a 15 ft yard extension and a branch-line that runs 60 ft along the back fence. Product reliability, obviously the large scale stuff requires more maintenance than the smaller scales due to the environment. LGB has a very good record of reliability, at least for the 'old LGB' and the 'new LGB' (European manufacture). I have no direct knowledge of the non-European stuff (mostly China). Semi-annual cleaning and lube has done just fine. My first LGB starter set (15 years) is still hauling like it always has. My Bachmann stuff also does quite well with semi-annual maint. With one exception, a Bachmann three truck shay which requires a ten hour service for the plastic drive line parts. (They pick up a LOT of dust and dirt!) I have a Bachmann trolley running on an auto-reversing line that has run for 12 years without maintenance, other than periodic dustings.
In my opinion, engine reliability has more to do with the condition of the rails than the brand name. A solid sub-roadbed, firm road and level rails cut down on the wear and tear of the engines. If at all possible keep your curves to at eight foot radius minimums and you should do fine. In my environment (sunny San Diego county, where more water s from sprinkler system than mother nature) I use the 'trench method'. Dig a trench 5" wide 4~5" deep, line with garden fabric and fill with 3/8 minus crushed rock and "float" the track. The fabric keeps the rock from floating away deeper into the clay earth. Every February I slide a 6" spirit level over the rails looking for any uneven segments and lift/fill with 1/4" minus ballast. I have three sorting screens, 3 ft square 2x4 frames with wire mesh (1/2" 3/8" & 1/4") to size the material.
If you can give your location or micro-climate, others will give suggestions as to appropriate roadbed construction.
Tom Trigg
Thanks for the info Tom,
For your information, I live near Chiefland, Fl in the north central part of the State. Rain here is a big concern although the property that I have is very sandy and water, even with a heavy downpour, runs off in about 10 minutes.
I was actually thinking at the time of my original post, more on the line of switch dependability as it seemed to be a big issue in my N scale days. I would also believe that track radius is one of those things that the term "more is better" would apply. As such, the first purchase that I made was a full circle of the Aristo-Craft 20' diameter track. I also have my eyes on the USA #6 switches, and have seen reviews saying both good things and bad about them. Thoughts on them would be welcomed. Since I now have the room for it, I really don't intend to go with anything less than a 10' radius anywhere.
I know that you stated that you still run analog and I can appreciate that, however I have been thinking in the lines of a USA Trains PA-1 PB-1 setup, battery powered R/C with sound. Any thoughts on that or recommendations would also be welcomed.
This whole thing is like re-learning the hobby all over again, and questions of who to buy from and what websites to use are very much an issue.
Thanks Again,
I'm running Airwire battery power RC and I'm very happy with the setup. I have about 1,000 feet of track and plan on building more. I tried sectional track on previous layouts. It limited what I could do so I've gone to full flex-track. The rail bender has just made everything possible and if you don't like how it turned out you can always re-bend the track to suit a new configuration. As far as switches go I now make my own from plans from GR. Much cheaper that way. I power them with air which I think is more reliable.
My 2 cents,
Rex
Here in SE Arizona, 8 miles from Mexico at an altitude of 4,600 feet, I too use AirWire and battery power.
The biggest advantage to this approach is 'no track cleaning required' except for going around and sweeping off rocks or other debris that could cause a derailment.
Some of my rail is PVC plastic from TrainLi USA that they call "display rail" but it is holding up very well outdoors.
Both my home and our club outdoor layout use a combination of PVC, aluminum and brass rail threaded into the PVC crosstie sections sold by TrainLi.
All the turnouts are hand throw AristoCraft or ones from TrainLi. .
You can see our club layout at www.cwmrrc.com
Hi Rex,
Thanks for the input. Airwire sounded like the way to go when reading about it, although I had concerns about obstructions such as tunnels etc. Can you please put my mind at ease on this one?
I thought STRONGLY about the flex track option as I don't particularly care for the sectional either but spending 300+ for a rail bender without any idea on how it would work, is a gamble that I was not willing to take. I'm VERY interested on not only your opinion, but what to get, what track to get, and how to use it.
The idea of making my own switches really appeals to me but again, have now idea on who or where, is a good place to start for an education of the subject. ANY input that you have will be GREATLY appreciated.
I'm retired now, although a machinist by trade. To that end, I NEVER turned down the opportunity for a "free education" (it's one of the few trades where that really does apply"). That being said, your opinion, and others' are enthusiastically welcomed!
Switch reliability: I have three types of switches, LGB, Aristo and homemade (with LGB electric throw). All work well after a dozen or more years. The Aristo switches seem to be more prone to dirt jams at the points. I believe that is due to their "shorter" ties, being closer to the dirt gives more opportunity to collect dirt. It is only about 1/16th inch different in height. Solution: I no longer ballast any of my switches, problem reduced to one per year. Powering switch machines is a personal preference issue. As they come ready for electric, I chose to not spend the extra cash to convert to air power. I have seen air at work and it does just fine. In my experience I would have to say that dirt free switches are the key to success. I have a 1 inch paint brush that I use ever 3 months to whisk away dirt and debris from the switches. My biggest problem is with "dog deposits".
Sectional track vs. Flex track. Sectional is easy to take from the box, snap it together, and run trains. On the flip side, they do work themselves apart, a wheel can "pick the split" and derail. Also there will come the time that the available curve diameters do not allow for some needed right of way adjustments. Flex track: Longer segments (5 1/2 ft vs. 11 1/2 inches) equals fewer rail joints, fewer opportunities for wheels to "pick a joint". I use Split Jaw Rail-clamps (there are other brands available that work just as well. Split Jaw just happens to be the brand my local store carries.) for all my joints. As flex curves the inside rail becomes "longer" than the outside rail. Many folks trim for evenness, I don't, I let the joints stagger, I believe the staggered joints add strength to keep the rail alignment. It prevent both lateral and vertical kinking of the joint.
Slip-on rail connectors vs. rail clamps. Slip-ons will allow the rail to move providing a gap for a wheel to "pick and jump track". They allow dirt to get inside and will corrode, thus impeding the flow of electrons. Rail clamps: I have never had to clean a joint in the last 15 years due to dirt or loss of electrical conductivity. In my original design and planning I thought to make switch maintenance easier the rail clamps would allow me to lift out a switch without disturbing the adjoining rails. As it has turned out, I have only needed to lift out 2 of the 30 switches for maintenance, The dogs have selected one switch for solid debris deposits requiring me to do some serious small particle removal. The other is where the dogs have selected as liquid deposit point to the switch machine. Even though it is weather resistant, it still builds up a bit of corrosion and requires annual maintenance.
Track cleaning: About every 4~5 months I dig out the sheet rock sanding pole with a green souring pad and give the layout a quick scrub. About 5 minutes for ~450 ft of rail. I do the rail yard by hand as there are too many things that get in the way with the pole. I have a battery powered Silver Goose (no R/C, just 4 AA's and an On-Off switch) that I have fitted a removable scrubbing block underneath.
Construction suggestions. As you so wisely said "more is better". Use the widest curves that will fit the available real estate. During the initial construction I put in several unused switches in the main oval around the Koi Pond. One for the future rail yard, one for the future trolley line to the top of the waterfall, a pair for the future siding and another pair for the branch line, The boss said she wanted a train to disappear and not come back for a while. and a few for stub end sidings. In other words, allow for future expansion without having to disturb any of the existing layout.
Tom,
I love your suggestions! I will also let you know that size-wise, I have approx. 3 acres of land that can be devoted to this although obviously it won't be that big (yet) . As I said before, I like the idea of building my own switches and eventually will probably do so, but in the meantime, the emphasis is more on the "stick it and go" idea.
Track cleaning, to me seems as though it could be a MAJOR problem for me, (still thinking of my days of N gauge and trying every suggestion from sandpaper to No-OX) I would really like to be relieved of this problem, mainly due to age and health reasons, therefore, the idea of onboard power AND control, is the option that I want to go with.
As I stated before, I do have some sectional track by USA, Aristocraft and LGB. That being said, I do plan to use it, although the flex-track is what I would like to end up with for the same reasons that you stated above. I just don't know what to buy and how it works. I would LOVE to have somebody tell me to "buy this" and "use it this way". I really don't want to play around with this much more than I have, without someone that has gone before me, telling me what works. I live out here in central florida with no club or experience nearby. I have played with N gauge all my life and was introduced to the large scale many years ago by the composer, David Rose. Many times did I arrive at his front gate to pick up music scores from him and was told to get on the flatcar and he would take me to the music library that was in the back of his property. We passed the "machine shop", where he built these enormous things we were riding on and then went to his "music library" that was like a horse paddock with glass windows on either side. On the left, was his library and on the right were nothing but collectable trains. All of this was live steam. As a kid, I was just enthralled with the hobby and with David himself. He is the guy that taught me the basics of the machinist's trade and became a very dear friend. We kind of be-friended each other and I was taught by him, a lot of what I know about model trains.
However, time has past and I am now in a position to do all of this myself. Any suggestions are really MORE than appreciated
Thanks Rex for the input!
I would definitely like to know more about Airwire from someone that uses it. I've read a lot on this subject, from Revolution to LocoLinc to Airwire and more. Sure would be nice to have someone who knows, unscribble it all for me...
However, time has passed and I am now in a position to do all of this myself. Any suggestions are really MORE than appreciated
An alternative to flex track is to purchase stock rail and tie strips, and bend your own shapes. I purchase aluminum rail in bulk packs of 6 foot lengths from SwitchCrafters and use the PVC plastic 1-foot long tie strips from TrainLi. I also purchased a rail bender from SwitchCrafters. After bending the rail to the shape I need, it is threaded into the tie sections. Joints are fastened with rail clamps, primarily Split Jaw brand but others can be used.
Because we're in an unguarded open area with lots of wildlife roaming around at night, primary javelina, a collared peccary that some people equate to a wild pig that likes to root around for food, the track is fastened to concrete using Tapcon screws.
Not sure what your concern is with obstructions and RC. If the signal is lost or blocked then the default is to continue running the last received command until the signal is picked up again. I think that is okay for model trains on tracks but not so good for model airplanes. Most of signal lost conditions for airplanes result in crashes. Of course you can purchase fail-safe options for RC airplanes but they're expensive. I have both a T9000 and a T5000 throttle from Airwire. The T5000 has better range and is easier to use. Both can be used by grand children and neighborhood kids. The single problem I have is interference from the video system (portable security camera/transmitter) that I set on the front of my locos for guests. I have to get really close to the loco for it to pick up transmissions from my throttle with the camera turned on.
I bought my rail bender several years ago and didn't pay more than $100 for it. Prices have certainly gone up. Still I would consider it a worthwhile investment. I also use it to locate and fix twisted track caused by critters and frost heaves over the winter when we're not here..
I order my rails in bulk eight foot lengths and slide the one foot ties/sleepers on. (note that the ties do not come as part of the rail purchase when you buy in bulk.) I use my dremel to cut and fit as needed. There have been times when flex ties were out of stock so I made do with straight ties and cut every other connection between the ties so it would expand as needed for the curve I was making. I also use a combination of Split-Jaw clamps and slip joiners for track connections.
I use the switch plans/instructions from GR magazine to build my switches. You learn a lot about points in the process of building your own and if you're running battery power you don't need to worry about wiring them.
My two cents,
Trainli has 8 foot brass rail and sells the ties and joiners separately.
Plastic display rail is available in 18 foot rolls (ships in a pizza style box) and you do not need a rail bender with flexible plastic track.
PS the plastic track and concrete style ties are made in the USA
Dan forgot to mention that if you want a rail bender...
Pay the money and get the rail bender that Trail-Li sells!
Well worth the money if you want to bend rail!
http://www.trainli.com/rail-bender-c-295_54_36.html
There Rail clamps are great! See this review:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/11497/train-li-s-rail-clamp
http://www.trainli.com/rail-clamps-c-295_54_61.html
Good luck and we like pics!!
Rex,
Having been in the R/C plane hobby, that was my concern about obstructions. To date, ground breaking has begun and I've gone with all of the suggestions that have been posted. Most of the stuff has been purchased from RLD and to be honest, Robbie has gone overboard helping me out.
So far, we have a lot of track, mainly flex and a rail bender that he suggested, ART11921. It looks to be well made and I'm sure it will do the job. I also had him set up a PA-1 PB-1 loco setup for me on Airwire with Phoenix sound.
I'm in the process of breaking ground now. Fortunately, I have all the tools to my disposal to make this project easier that normal, including a backhoe to do all the modifications to the land so it will be level from the start. This is the first time that I've actually enjoyed getting on the backhoe to do something! I feel like a kid again, playing in the sandbox! The size that I came up with was 35x65. At this point, it looks to be too small. That being said, there is room for expansion but I'll stick with this for the time being. Getting this level and in good shape is a learning process all it's own and I want to enjoy every minute of it. Any suggestions are MORE than welcome.
Do I know what the hell I'm doing? NO! Do I know where I'm Going? YEP!
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