The importance of Webpages! My take on Layout website standards

[Anonymous]

In my Large Scale tenure, I have found that the webpage has provided me with as much fun as the construction.

Here is my take on Layout website standards, I'm going to cite examples and ask that you not be offended that I not include everyone:

1) Lots of photos- We should all invest in even an inexpensive digital camera for quick updates. Pictures do say thousands of words. I get a thrill of visiting your webpages and seeing your progress. In these poor and early days of my layout, I get a warm feeling living vicariously through your websites. Specially, the Aussie and British ones (lets not forget Canada). Marty C's major contributions to my lexicon of knowledge via his website continues to be my standard for domestic (US) Large scale.

2) Duality of Purpose- Every webpage should focus on two main purposes 1) Construction and Operation. The Construction focuses on the betterment of the hobby. The passing of knowledge and methods to new and old alike. Phil does and outstanding job at this. I've seen a few British pages that do an excellent job of this. Operation includes the fictional backstory (outlandish if need be or based on a prototype line). This includes an authentic fell. You have to believe that it is real and portray that feeling to the web-sters who visit.

3) Balance- I try to balance my webpage between these points.

4) Backstory- If it takes a year to solidify your backstory, or if you get new equipment and have to modify the story...so be it. I like to think that the layout exists in the "aeternal now." You can participate in Orwellianism and rewrite history at the drop of a hat. The backstory is like a "living document." Unless you have completed your railroad, this may have to happen.

5) Regular updates- Your website might have fans. I know that I make regular trips to some of your websites and am at the edge of my seat en re updates

6) Style- This is the most personal of these indicators. It is based on knowledge of computer skills et al. There are many so-called free servers (like the tripod page I use) that allow a good amount of freedom...save for the blasted internal advertizements and popup that I will now appologize for. My page opens to a front page that is based on a real railroad page I once visited, then it branches off from there.

I have made a few webpages for some on the forum, I try to keep these premises in my own page.

Rene, feel free to branch an article of of this is you wish. I think some of the insights into web stuff the people at Garden Railways can provide will improve the hobby.

[Anonymous]

Capt, I would love to start a web site but can honestly say I'm intimidated buy the idea. You got more kahooneys than I do! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Captain, I agree that a web site is a lot of fun. My biggest problem is keeping it up to date. I have recently added a page devoted to Clubs I belong to. Still need to work on my history and 2004 updates.
Richard
http://www.mygardenrr.com

[Anonymous]

I thought I would dig up this topic and see what newbies might have to say!

[Tom The Brat]

I much enjoy my web site at http://gold.mylargescale.com/torby/

It's just another fun aspect of the hobby. Sometimes I'm in the mood to update the web page, sometimes I'm in the mood to build something, sometimes I'm in the mood to make people, sometimes I'm in the mood to watch trains go round-and-round, and sometimes I'm in the mood to watch tv or something[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Torby

I much enjoy my web site at http://gold.mylargescale.com/torby/

It's just another fun aspect of the hobby. Sometimes I'm in the mood to update the web page, sometimes I'm in the mood to build something, sometimes I'm in the mood to make people, sometimes I'm in the mood to watch trains go round-and-round, and sometimes I'm in the mood to watch tv or something[:D]

Excelent!!!

I love the part about the McComb Depot. Your page gets my SEAL of Approval!!!!

[Anonymous]

Torby, Love your site! Enjoyed all of it! Those Dash 9 pics have to be usefull to a modeler somewhere.

Job well Done! Treat yourself to a pedicure[:D]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Carrales

In my Large Scale tenure, I have found that the webpage has provided me with as much fun as the construction.

Here is my take on Layout website standards, I'm going to cite examples and ask that you not be offended that I not include everyone:

1) Lots of photos- We should all invest in even an inexpensive digital camera for quick updates. Pictures do say thousands of words. I get a thrill of visiting your webpages and seeing your progress. In these poor and early days of my layout, I get a warm feeling living vicariously through your websites. Specially, the Aussie and British ones (lets not forget Canada). Marty C's major contributions to my lexicon of knowledge via his website continues to be my standard for domestic (US) Large scale.

2) Duality of Purpose- Every webpage should focus on two main purposes 1) Construction and Operation. The Construction focuses on the betterment of the hobby. The passing of knowledge and methods to new and old alike. Phil does and outstanding job at this. I've seen a few British pages that do an excellent job of this. Operation includes the fictional backstory (outlandish if need be or based on a prototype line). This includes an authentic fell. You have to believe that it is real and portray that feeling to the web-sters who visit.

3) Balance- I try to balance my webpage between these points.

4) Backstory- If it takes a year to solidify your backstory, or if you get new equipment and have to modify the story...so be it. I like to think that the layout exists in the "aeternal now." You can participate in Orwellianism and rewrite history at the drop of a hat. The backstory is like a "living document." Unless you have completed your railroad, this may have to happen.

5) Regular updates- Your website might have fans. I know that I make regular trips to some of your websites and am at the edge of my seat en re updates

6) Style- This is the most personal of these indicators. It is based on knowledge of computer skills et al. There are many so-called free servers (like the tripod page I use) that allow a good amount of freedom...save for the blasted internal advertizements and popup that I will now appologize for. My page opens to a front page that is based on a real railroad page I once visited, then it branches off from there.

I have made a few webpages for some on the forum, I try to keep these premises in my own page.

Rene, feel free to branch an article of of this is you wish. I think some of the insights into web stuff the people at Garden Railways can provide will improve the hobby.

Amen!

BTW those who have been to my hobby website and are familiar with the circa 1960 - 75 RhB will have noted that the info appears in a RhB coach window - - - that is once you're past the index page.
Of course the index page(s) - English and German - are a "fine assortment" of the routing/destination boards found on the RhB (with slightly different text[;)]).

And the sites are being worked on, slowly but surely!

[Puckdropper]

QUOTE:
1) Lots of photos- We should all invest in even an inexpensive digital camera for quick updates. Pictures do say thousands of words. I get a thrill of visiting your webpages and seeing your progress. In these poor and early days of my layout, I get a warm feeling living vicariously through your websites. Specially, the Aussie and British ones (lets not forget Canada). Marty C's major contributions to my lexicon of knowledge via his website continues to be my standard for domestic (US) Large scale.

Please remember those poor people on dial-up! Keep your picture pages reasonable in size, I have (on dialup) been known to stop loading a page because it was taking too long.

[John Busby]

Hi Capt Carrales
I am on dial up and i say lots of photos, plans ect ect
and all the information on the railway you can get..
WHAT I HATE!!!!
Is all those [censored] flashing backgrounds animations and other what I concider unnesasary hey I can do this show off bits that realy chew up the
download time and inform the viewer of nothing of value on the railroad
I also find most of the adverts contemptable for the same reasons.
They often double or trebble the download time and are trying to flog me something from another land that I don't want and am not likely to want.
Shame we cannot insist that only MRR products and services in our chosen scale are advertised on our web sites at least they might be usefull.
Sorry to rant but all singing all dancing web sites do nothing for me as I am interested in the trains not the flash bits
regards John

[Anonymous]

I would say the small pics are the best. I should amend my original opinion, pics should be plentiful, albiet reasonable. Use thumbnails with links to bigger images, that should allow dial-up people to pick and choose which photos to wait for.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Carrales

I would say the small pics are the best. I should amend my original opinion, pics should be plentiful, albiet reasonable. Use thumbnails with links to bigger images, that should allow dial-up people to pick and choose which photos to wait for.

Hi there,

Even 600 x 400pixel pictures can be brought down to 40-50K without losing the essentials.
And restricting pages to a max number of pictures works really well. In short there is no reason why the dial-up crew has to twiddle their thumbs, as long as the web designer knows what she/he is doing.
BTW it needs to be a really interesting web site for me to stay if the first thing I see is some %^&$#*@ advertising, I'm talking about private websites!
Oh yes, I even have a specialty forum on my hobby website. No ads, not even for our own business!

[kstrong]

Updates? We're supposed to update? With all the spyware on my computer telling everyone what I'm doing, how come it can't update my web site for me??? Surely it must know!

(Kevin's Mac here - No, and stop calling me Shirley.)

I think the biggest stumbling block for many who build web sites is the coding for it. There are a number of "wysiwyg" programs that help out, but you still need to build graphics, size photos (and resize them for thumbnails) etc to use on the web site. Once you get the hang of it, it's not difficult, but there is definitley a learning curve. In all honestly, it's unlike scratchbuilding or kitbashing a model. Once you get your feet wet, and learn how to turn the saw on, it all will come with practice.

But I still offer no estimate on when I'll update my pages next... I've only got two locos to add, 5 pieces of rolling stock, and the new railroad expansion plans to describe... Nothing major...

Later,

K

[wd8jik]

Finding time to up date my site has been the hardest thing for me to do in the last few months.
There are things that I demonstrated at York, PA East Coast show last April that have to be added to the site, but everything has come up to get in the way.
But "one of these days." !!!!!!!!!!!

[CandCRR]

You all have inspired me to resurrect an old donain name/URL (not sure the proper term) I own. It will be a while before it is ready for the public to see.

As far as the photos go couldn't you have a thumbnail photo that when clicked on would go to the original in Webshots or Shutterfly? So you would not have to use up any of your alloted storage space?

Capt Carrales can you tell me more about the so-called free servers?

Lastly what software would you reccomend for creating your web pages?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CandCRR

Capt Carrales can you tell me more about the so-called free servers?

Surely. I use one called tripod.com. One just signs up and one is alotted an amount of webspace, later, one can pay for more. The only draw back are the adverts that are the result of your deal. Most times the ads are based on related materials from a scan of the words in your pages. For example, on my tripod page for my locomotives the advertizing reflects locomotive and railroad sponsors, on my page that describes the municipalities it often has links to city gov stuff.

The only caveat is that if you become ovely creative in naming sections of your layout (i.e. and heaven forbid... "The Hoochie Mama Canyon," your ads may not display any desired place of good repute.

Most have "page editor templates" that will help you or you can use HTML code.

[Puckdropper]

Many Internet Service Providers provide free web pages with service. They're usually ad-free, but can be horrible quality and also the URL changes as (if) you switch ISPs.

[Anonymous]

Intresting Capt C. I never even noticed the ads on your site[X-)] and I've viewed it on several occasions.

[toenailridgesl]

http://www.trainweb.org provides 15meg of free space to any train-related site & only has a trainweb banner across the top of the page, totally non-intrusive.
Capt, if you want a "back-story" of my Toenail Ridge Shortline prepare for a long read, the Saga of the Ridge is now up to 33 chapters & prints out to over 250 pages!
http://www.trainweb.org/toenailridge/book.html

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by toenailridgesl

http://www.trainweb.org provides 15meg of free space to any train-related site & only has a trainweb banner across the top of the page, totally non-intrusive.
Capt, if you want a "back-story" of my Toenail Ridge Shortline prepare for a long read, the Saga of the Ridge is now up to 33 chapters & prints out to over 250 pages!
http://www.trainweb.org/toenailridge/book.html

Phil,

Yours is one of the first pages I visited and, let me say, I based many of my standards on what I saw there!!!

Capt Carrales

[RhB_HJ]

Hi guys,

On the "free" webspace deals. I've participated in a support forum for a WYSIWYG web-software.
75% of the problems/questions were related to "Free" hosts, from "Can't Upload" to "My site disappeared" to "Zapped my site". Not to mention other fine stuff like severe restrictions on traffic volume, tech support that takes two weeks to reply etc. etc.

Now, to be honest I can't say "been there, done that!", my hobby site used to run on free webspace from my dial-up ISP so I paid for it and the performance/ service was good.
I changed a year ago because I wanted a better forum and the free webspace didn't come with PHP and SQL support.
It's the old story, you get what you pay for! Keep that in mind when you look at web hosts!

BTW my current host has good service. I've called them at 3AM when things went down and they would rectify the problem in 10 min. Running a bi-lingual specialized train forum with European and NA members and 9 hours time difference has its moments. [;)][:)]

[kstrong]

Well, for what I pay for my cable modem, "free" isn't exactly the right word to describe my web space. Still, it's included in the price. You can also join sites like mylargescale.com and get storage space as part of that deal as well. That takes care of your storage space issues. As for designing and placing content, that's a different story.

Netscape has a composer as part of their browser package. This is a rudimentary wysiwyg web page editor that will handle most common page design elements. If you want something more in-depth, then something like Adobe's PageMill will work well. (That's what I use.) There are higher end software packages that allow you to do pull-down menus, fancy frames, and all that neato stuff, too. I tried doing frames within PageMill, and met with less than stellar results.

If you're particularly computer literate, then you can code your own HTML in any word processing program and upload it that way. I'm not that literate.

When it comes to uploading your files, you'll need an FTP (file transfer protocol) program to get your files up to your storage space. Fetch is good one, and you can download 30 day trial versions for free. (And keep downloading them every 30 days, but I didn't tell you that.) I use Adobe's SiteMill. This is a website authoring program that works with PageMill to coordinate all the files and folders in your web site, and upload them all in one shot to the server. It also handles updates by examining changes made, comparing them with the files on the server, and uploading and replacing only the effected files. It's got its own FTP software built in. It's great for when you move your stuff to a new ISP. Simply tell it to upload everything to the new server, and it rebuilds all the addresses for you.

Later,

K

[mhampton]

My railroad empire is still only a dream, but I have a website to chronicle what I have accumulated so far (http://members.iquest.net/~mhampton). I try to give it visual appeal using HTML, JavaScript, and Cascading Style Sheets instead of lots of pictures.

If you want to put up a site, you really should try to learn HTML. I found out that you don't really have to know very much to look like an absolute wizard! There are some really good FREEWARE HTML editors available. Try googling for "coffee cup" or "ace html" to see what you find.

Mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mhampton

My railroad empire is still only a dream, but I have a website to chronicle what I have accumulated so far (http://members.iquest.net/~mhampton). I try to give it visual appeal using HTML, JavaScript, and Cascading Style Sheets instead of lots of pictures.

If you want to put up a site, you really should try to learn HTML. I found out that you don't really have to know very much to look like an absolute wizard! There are some really good FREEWARE HTML editors available. Try googling for "coffee cup" or "ace html" to see what you find.

Mike

I like the "cut " of your railroad. I see that you like the look of former White Pass Passenger coaches. I think the color combination is perfect for my line. I am still to order an Observation car. I use a Combine (named "El Cascabel") and a coach (called "Del Sol") with a caboose. I have some Rio Grande passenger numbers...A combine and an Observation and I have toyed with making the observation into my observation. It wouldn't match...but that might just give the train character.

All in all I like your webpage, it is informative and has a good story to it. I like the e-pass concept.

Capt Carrales

[Puckdropper]

Many applications can do HTML formatted files now, but be aware of problems with interchanging code and languages if you use a word processing program.

Personally, I like to use ConTEXT or plain simple notepad to do all my web design stuff. I find WYSIWYG programs tend to get in my way. HTML isn't difficult to learn at all, it's just like taking a document you typed and manually adding bold and italics. For those who are masters of the bulleten board code, it's quite similar to HTML.

[spodwo]

http://lizardattitude.homestead.com/

Very big w/ many photos...

[hminky]

I use Sitespinner, even an idiot like me can use it. The key to making a successful website are:

Pictures, Pictures, Pictures and a few words to describe the pictures. Don't have music and animation, they only slow loading. Don't worry about it looking like it is the work of the "master webmaster'", the content is what matters. Don't worry about coding or any of that crap, just get a good WYSIWYG program.

Our site is not large scale but is an example of a successful site. We had over 76,000 visitors since March 2004 to the various parts and web articles.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

Just a thought
Harold

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spodwo

http://lizardattitude.homestead.com/

Very big w/ many photos...

Your's is another of the "initial" webpages I drew my standards from. In fact, if you search the back files, you will find a post by me singing your praises.

I especially like the section on "Whimsey," or rahter the commentary on the need for less of it.

Capt Carrales

[scottychaos]

I still use the ancient Netscape Composer to build my pages..
when I first went on-line back in 1996, Netscape 4.7 was the browser of choice, and I started using composer to make webpages..
("composer" is the webpage builder portion of the netscape 4.7 package)
I no longer use Netscape as my browser, but I still use composer!
it can still be downloaded for free..
I also do some manual HTML editing to do things that composer cant do for me, but overall composer is pretty usefull..

here are my pages:
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/

and I was just taking about webpage design on MLS just this morning!
background colors specifically..
http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30607&whichpage=2

Scot

[CandCRR]

Capt Carrales,

I went to Tripod like you mentioned and signed up only fo find out that they can not or will not link the web name I already own to their pages. It looks like they only do it for ones you buy through them. So the search is on for another "free" location to build my web site.