Track Security

[railwayop]

Hello:
I am really getting interested in designing and building a garden railway as I am coming up for retirement in another couple of years. I have searched for ideas on securing the track so it won't get stolen (we have some neighbours from hell and worried they might steal, damage whatever). Would anyone have any constructive ideas for securing the rail to make theft much more difficult or impossible.

Thanks for any ideas,
Robbie

[Anonymous]

Do you have an enclosed backyard so that the railroad is not visible from the street?

Securing the track can be done depending on the type of roadbed you use. I'm starting to use concrete as my roadbed of choice. When pouring the concrete, you could embed wood or pvc pipe that you can then use to screw down the track.

But, one thing to consider is expansion/contraction. If you secure the track so that it can't be moved then it may deform as it expands and contracts. If you live in an area with big temperature swings then the best way to handle expansion/contraction is to free float the track in ballast and have lots of curves (avoid long straight runs of track). On a curve, expansion/contraction tends to just have an inconsequential effect on the radius of the curve.

Jon

[tangerine-jack]

If a thief wants something, he will eventually get it. I suggest the normal security procedures:

1. Install at least a 6ft privacy fence, 8ft if code allows
2. Post "No Trespassing" signs, this covers you legally if a dumb*** gets on your property.
3. Install a security camera, either real or decoy, and put it where it can be seen.
4. Write to the local police department and request routine surveillance for your property (I did this a year ago and it works, just don’t come rolling down your own street with an expired tag or you will find it works both ways).
5. Call the police if someone jumps the fence (that's why we pay them)
6. Get a dog, or if you worry about RR damage from the dog, get geese. Most thieves and vandals are spineless cowards and will move along when there are loud animals around.
7. Don't make it public knowledge what you have in your yard.
8. Invest in motion sensitive outdoor lighting.

Neighbors are the bane of civilization and we don't want to make bad neighbors, but we also put a lot of time, money and pride in our homes and gardens. I will protect what I have worked hard for, and I have no sympathy for the moron who wants to take from me. I am in a good position where I have some people living across the street that do nothing more than sit on the front porch and smoke all hours of the day and night. I used to worry about this, but if they are on the porch, then they are watching my house. I have a good relation with all my neighbors and that is the ultimate security. Don't let these idiots on your street spoil your retirement.
[oX)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

If a thief wants something, he will eventually get it. I suggest the normal security procedures:

1. Install at least a 6ft privacy fence, 8ft if code allows
2. Post "No Trespassing" signs, this covers you legally if a dumb*** gets on your property.
3. Install a security camera, either real or decoy, and put it where it can be seen.
4. Write to the local police department and request routine surveillance for your property (I did this a year ago and it works, just don’t come rolling down your own street with an expired tag or you will find it works both ways).
5. Call the police if someone jumps the fence (that's why we pay them)
6. Get a dog, or if you worry about RR damage from the dog, get geese. Most thieves and vandals are spineless cowards and will move along when there are loud animals around.
7. Don't make it public knowledge what you have in your yard.
8. Invest in motion sensitive outdoor lighting.

As a ex-Texas Peace Officer I agree with Jack!
Cameras are getting less money now, even night time camera and you can use your PC to record the events to send there b#$ to jail.
Remember use like a pellet gun proof plastic, in home inprovement stores for cameras/out door lighting so they will not shoot them out.

[tangerine-jack]

The methods I stated above are easy, cheap (except maybe the fence) and visible to deter theft and vandalism. We think nothing of spending hundreds, if not thousands on the RR, but balk when it comes to property protection. Why? Isn't your home and family worth whatever the cost? I do everything I listed but the animals, and I also have an integrated in home security system. I'm not paranoid or anything, just realistic. I can't be home 24/7, but I need the assurance my home and RR will be in good shape when I return, so passive security is a must.


My ultimate security, if needed (and legal), would consist of the above, plus a 8ft "Philipino" wall, which is a 2ft thick masonary wall topped with broken glass embedded in concrete (realistic)[B)], and two GAU-8 Avenger 20MM auto cannons on motion sensors [xx(](not realistic but very sexy none the less). Following that would be 20ft of poison sumack or ivy covering some tangle-foot wire. [:O]Like I stated before, "I pity the fool................"
[oX)]

[Anonymous]

my sugestions
would be to start with
1 Not visiable from the street
2 highly visable from the house thieves ect don't like the risk of being seen
3 All round highest fence the local authorities will allow
however make sure the acsess to the front door and all the front yard are visable from street repeat thieves don't like the risk of being seen
4 A dog that "LOOKS" mean viciouse and has the bark to match
a dog is a great deterant (and don't let the neighbours know the only person
likely to get hurt is the one that forgot the chockie treats and to give it a scratch under the ear)
5 Motion sensor lights are a good idea thieves don't like well lighted areas
being seen risk again.
6 Some cow bells or similar fixed on the side gate so that if the gate is opend the bells ring a simple noise deterent if a thief has to make to much noise he is likely to forget it
7 DO NOT put up a sign about a viciouse dog on premesis that is concidered an admition the dog is dangerouse
Those are all fairly simple measures that can be taken for property security
some one said don't advertise the railway another good idea
If you have police willing to do the occasional patrol along the street take advantage of it.
If you need the electronic servalance then I would think again about building it and lastly don't leave the trains out put them away.
regards John

[tangerine-jack]

I think the point is to enjoy our hobby without worrying about others, or allowing the actions of others to deter us. Anything you can do, even just putting up a sign that says you have security, will go a long way to detering crime. Most criminals will look for easy targets, and generaly not waste time finding out if your security is real or not. In my opinion, a fence is the only real mandatory secrity device as it defines the limits of your property and gives privacy with security, and will stand up in most courts if it comes to a tresspass case. My other suggestions are based on what we call in the military your "threat asessment", and can be added or removed as required. In my part of the US, you'd better have a sign posted if you have a dog of any kind to protect you from law suite. Check with your local police about that one.

I love the suggestion about the bells! In the Army we used old cans with a steel nut or washer inside of it strung from the concertina wire to give audible warning of perimiter intrusion. Don't know why I forgot to mention it. Getting dumb I guess....................[oX)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

I love the suggestion about the bells! In the Army we used old cans with a steel nut or washer inside of it strung from the concertina wire to give audible warning of perimiter intrusion. Don't know why I forgot to mention it. Getting dumb I guess....................[oX)]

Man after my own heart!

I did forget to advise about security lights.
Had one house that had them and while owners was away at work the thieves went by there lights and unturnen them intill they would not come on.
That night they came back for the goods and I had to work this case.
I thought and thought why the lights never came on.
So above I came up with what the thieves did because I used the home owners ladder and found I was right. No dogs, nothing but the lights.

Now after I advised the home owners they have a much safer place for there goods and grandchildren.

I loved where I worked because I grew up there and was truly concrened about the citizens I work for at night for 7 yrs.

As for the wall doors opening into your back yard remember this!
You need to have a better clearence side to side than 4' gate.
That is killing me on custruction jobs and mowing jobs! My ZD21 mower has a 72" deck and these contractors make the gate 4'. Just FYI.
Think of what you will need to bring into the back yard to make railway.

[Anonymous]

Robbie
i have a dust to dawn light and i have motion sensors on other lights, but we are lucky and don't have to many problems in my area where i live.. get motion censors you can hook up a horn or bells to. Ben

[Anonymous]

Ben,

I forget which dusk to dawn lights they are but they pull less enegry than the others. Would have to check Home Depot or do a search on Google.
Leased you save $$$ for some more track/trains. [:D]

[tangerine-jack]

I'm thinking motion sensor lights start at $20 for cheap ones and go up from there according to how fancy you want to get. The ones I use are decorative, but still around the $50 mark and include dusk to dawn settings. I saw some that were over the top at $150+. There are a lot of choices out there so comparative shop for what's right for you. Installing motion lights is no harder than replacing existing light mount with the motion sensor one. Naturaly if you have to run a wire, the cost goes up accordingly.

Bluebonnet hit a point about the unscrewed bulbs, check on your own lighting (and other security devices) once in a while and right away repair or replace anything that is not 100%. As I said in the begining, thieves will eventualy get what they want, but our vigilance will make them get it from somebody else.[oX)]

[markperr]

You call your neighbors the "neighbors from hell". Does that mean they steal things from you and other neighbors constantly?

Not knowing your neighbors the way you do , I'll try and advise that you find a way to include them in your project. Do they have kids who might be interested in helping you build and run the trains? GR's are a lot of back-breaking work in the beginning, moving dirt and rock, spending a lot of time on your hands and knees running wires, and digging ballast trenches, and planting plants. It's all very physical. Do these folks have a nice feature in their garden or landscaping that you could ask them about? Have they done construction on their own property like a deck or patio? I would try to find a way to make them your ally rather than shut them out (or you in). What good is an outdoor hobby if you can't share it with someone. Everybody has a fond memory of a train somewhere in their childhood. Heck, maybe you could even get an airbrush and see if they want to perfect their graffiti techniques in miniature on the side of a couple of your boxcars. Oh, and if they DO agree to help, feed them. Nothing brings neighbors together like breaking bread with each other. Pizza and sodas would work well. Everyone likes it, and it can usually be delivered.

Still, there will always be the opportunistic thief, and you should at minimum, get lighting that will light up the darkness. Take pictures of your layout and the items you plan on putting into it and keep good records of the money you put into these items. You'll need them should a thief take off with them. Both for the police report and for your homeowners insurance.

It seems a shame to have to spend several thousand bucks on a fence when it could be better used to buy things for your pike.

Just my naive Christian thinking. Good luck Robbie.

Mark

[d4fal]

I'm glad I don't have this problem. My neighbors are scared of me for some reason. Must have been because when I come home from the Army Reserves, I'm still in uniform and I look like a NAZI. j/k They don't care for my dogs and it is a pretty big property that I have, so they don't know about my railroad. And if they did, everything is in locked sheds when it is not in operation. My old G scale was well hidden and motion sensor lights (more than one) was used.

I guess that your neighbors probably don't care for their yard, and the kids are terrors, from what I have seen in the past, that last post really would not help much. These kinds of kids are usually little devils and will break into your yard for the challenge. Deterrents will only backfire because I've known a family like that where the parents think their kids are sweet little angels and that you are in the wrong. I'm glad I had only rented that place, and moved away. There is no way to deal with these people, I'm afraid. A dog if it attacked these kids even in your yard would get you into just as much trouble as if you had shot them.

Having the police (if they will) patrol the area, and deal with them red handed is the best option, but that would not help much, as they will only get a slap on the wrist, if that, and come after you ten times more. I'm sorry that you have this problem, and if you can get out of there, do so.

[Anonymous]

I have found kid (s) in my backyard without my permission and it's all fenced in! I have since installed a slide bolt about 4 or 5 inches up form the bottom so they can't open it from the outside of the gate, but that doesn't keep them from just jumping over. I have security lights mounted that can'tbe reached and motion lights. I guess a BB gun could take the lights out though. I'm still debating on installing a Garden Railroad. I'm not worried about theft, but more on the logistics of taking my engines and rolling stock out everytime I was to run it. That could be a real pain.

[Anonymous]

BaltimoreBayside, Any chance you have a basement with a window, you could always build a portal through the and store trains and rolling stock there. Another alternative would be under a deck or build an engine house. I myself have toyed with the idea of building a cabinet for my wife to pot flowers and the
trains would be stored on the bottom with a lockable door. The key to all this is out of site out of mind, if they can't see it they won't screw with it!

Or get a BB gun of yer own![:0][:p][:D][;)]

[wa1lbk]

Just started construction on an outdoor RR myself; I've had an indoor one for 2 years, but need the outdoor line for my Accucraft live-steam Shay. I'm building the line elevated @ 2 feet off the ground, just above a hedge that parallels the chainlink fence around our property. Our house & most of the surrounding homes a 3-floor tenament houses; I'm fortunate that the neighborhood is pretty quiet, & I'm on very good terms with the neighbors whose yard most of the layout will be running near. I am still concerned about potential vandalism though. I started construction with some used LGB brass track I bought from a friend; it's very well weathered from years of being outside (virtually black!). That first straight stretch (30 feet) has been outside for a bit over a month now with no problems; I'm just starting consturction of the first curve, which will use Aristo 11-1/2 foot radius curve track. Being new, it's bright brass, which I hope will discolor over the winter similar to the LGB track. At least for now, I plan NO permanent buildings outside - I may change that in the future if I have no problems. I am also considering wiring up the track in a manner similar to a closed-loop perimeter burglar alarm, such that if a piece of track was pulled loose, it would set off a burglar alarm. (I'm planning to run track-powered trains as well as live steam; I'll rig up a way to quickly switch from "track power" to alarm mode). I work second shift & am usually usually up most of the night (go to bed typically at 5 AM! [zzz] ), with lights on in the house, so that in itself may discourage potential late-night pranksters. In fact, I frequently run my Shay after dark - prompting one neighbor woman to lean out of her 3rd-floor window & ask what I had out there! (All she could see was this cloud of steam running back & forth along the fence! [:D] ). Overall reaction from the neighbors so far seems to be one of fascination with my project! [^] - I just hope it stays that way! [:-,] Tom

[Anonymous]

Dawn to dusk security lights are wonderful. Helps the thieves see what they are doing so you don't get sued when they hurt themselves on your property. Security lights are right up there with car alarms for being next to useless. At least they are not the nuisence a car alarm is. I have em so I don't trip when I walk around my property at night.

I agree with all the police and ex thieves when I say ... a dog is a mans best friend .. and a thieves worst enemy.

As for train security . most people recommend a shed. Both for protection from the elements and protection from two legged rattlesnakes. Locks are real good for keeping honest folk honest and reducing vandalism to your trains. Nothing is going to stop a dedicated thief.

[Anonymous]

See yer local real estate agent...... short of "Nuking Them Till They Glow", if they are that bad, you might just want to move to greener pastures.

[Anonymous]

I agree with John Busby and I always take my rolling stock in at night.

mikadousrp

[Anonymous]

The track closed circuit is a great idea If circuit is broken the security lights and alarm will sound. Place an irresistable decoy by track When moved (stolen) the alarm is activated.

[Anonymous]

set up garden lights with motion senors. If you put them near back gates and along the driveways you can see your way into the drive and it has some security.

[grandpopswalt]

Storing the trains INDOORS is probably the best thing to do. If you don’t have too many structures, how much trouble is it to bring in the most valuable ones? Just don't mount them permanently. It's unlikely that thieves will steal track. It's more likely that youngsters will vandalize the right-of-way, and there's probably not much you can do about it. Your defense is to have surveillance equipment that records the theft or vandalism that can be used to find and prosecute the guilty. It will probably turn out to be one of your neighbor’s kids. You can muscle the parents for restitution if you have a tape.

Walt

[markperr]

A few years ago, on our 20th wedding anniversary, I bought my wife a new Viking Designer One Embroidery sewing machine. The thing costs 8 grand with the associated computer software and she is completely paranoid that whenever she has to take it out of the house to go to an embroidery class, that someone will steal it. Okay, maybe she has a right since the thing costs so much but I try to calm her down by telling her that there isn't much of a black market for home embroidery sewing machines and she should try to relax a little.
I believe the going price for brass at the junk dealer is around $2.00/lb. I figure a thief would have to tear up about a hundred feet of track to come up with ten pounds of brass and then he'd have to strip the ties off of it before the dealer would take the scrap. That's a lot of work for twenty bucks, so it's doubtful a thief would want to make off with our track. That leaves vandalism, the number one pastime of the miscreant adolescent. If you can protect your property by lighting or, as I said in a previous post, gaining their respect, trust, and friendship, then you'll probably have the problem licked.

Best of luck and keep us apprised of events
Mark

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Another vote for Paws and Jaws Mobile Alarm System!!! My 2 labs are people dogs, but the sight of two 70 lb dogs coming at you like highball freights is enough to scare anybody. Even the regular maid service people say they wouldn't get out of the car if I weren't home, and they know the girls and that they just want to get some attention. Gets a bit expensive trying to fence in 5 acres, and that would ruin the view of the deer across my cornfield. The girls also work well for keeping the deer out of the yard. They are contained in invisible fence and have a set of dog doors on back porch and from porch to house so they can go in and out at leasure or anytime they hear something outside!