The hobby over the next 10 years

[Anonymous]

Here in south east Queensland we have several vintage model trains still running and we have been on two of them already. The first was on the train with no name pulled by a 1952 vintage tank engine called "The Blue Baby" it was originally built in Brisbane to pull sugar cane. The other was the Mary Valley Rattler. I have writtten an article for our club magazine on both trips, if any one is interested I'll send them a copy of them

Rgds

Ian

[Anonymous]

Your absolutely right Kim, when you say the hobby is about people. One of the things I like most about this hobby is the people I've meet on-line and in person. Our club is now up to ninety members (familys) and so far not one bad apple in the bunch. How meany other types of groups can say this about their membership.
Over the next ten years I think the social aspect of our hobby will grow even stronger than it is today.

May all your weeds be wild flowers..... OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Well, this has caused a debate hasn't it.
Don't worry old friends, the hobby is alive, well and kicking and will continue to be so well beyond our lifetimes. I voted 'do my own thing' because I run different scales, sometimes together, but that's me enjoying my rr. The hobby is about people and people are awkward things at the best of times who love supporting failing things. If 1:32 starts fading away you can bet there will be a group who will then model nothing else but that to keep it 'alive'. You never know, but On30 may become the scale to be seen in with some marvellous little track cleaner to make it good for outdoors. The only certainty here, for me, is that we are on board at the right time in regards of model availability and the cost of them (especially you guys in the States). I do see a tendency coming for better detailed models at higher prices and much larger loco's at much larger prices, which is fine if you can afford them and you have the land to put down 20' curves. Enjoy your hobby!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[kstrong]

John Busby wrote that the hobby will decline based on the fact that yards are getting smaller. I think you can argue that yards aren’t “really” getting smaller, and even so, it’s not a detriment to the hobby. Suburban lots are becoming smaller, but only relative to their large sizes of the 60s and 70s. Today's “postage stamp” sized back yards share much in common with the small urban and suburban lots of the 1900s to the 1950s.

In many ways, a small yard is a blessing; the most important one is low maintenance. When I lived in upstate NY, I lived on a half acre. I had lots of space, so I built lots of railway. I never finished "lots of railway" because I spent so much time just trying to keep up with "lots of space." I know others who have large yards and large railways, and the most common complaint I hear is that they don't have time to keep up with it all, so they don't have a chance to enjoy it.

When Allison and I bought our house out here in CO, a "decent" sized yard was on our shopping list, but we really knew we didn't want or need anything as large as what we had back in NY. Our back yard is 35’ x 65’, which seems to be average or just above average for yards in our neighborhood. The lot itself is 1/5 acre. Many of the houses we looked at—from c. 1970 forward—had lots of similar size.

The railway I ultimately build in our back yard will be a great deal smaller than that which I had in Rochester, but it will also be a great deal easier to maintain. There’s not nearly as much ground to landscape, plants to care for, and track to lay. Still, there’s enough room for a decent amount of track, and the ability for a 10 car train to not look like it’s chasing its own tail. The ability to easily maintain a railway in balance with other activities and responsibilities will, I think, help maintain the health of the hobby by “forcing” people not to bite off more than they can chew. We all have grand visions for what we’d do with unlimited space and time, but the realities are that our space and time are very limited. Some of the most delightful railways I’ve visited have been built in rather small spaces. There’s something inherent in the intimacy of a small railroad that creates its own magic.

As for the size and price of the models limiting growth, I don’t think that’s going to be at all detrimental to the growth of the hobby. In any hobby, there’s a broad spectrum in terms of affordability. We all look at top-of-the-line cars, boats, and houses, and think “someday.” That doesn’t stop us from buying what our wallets allow. There’s a great variety available in large scale trains. No, we all can’t spend $3,000 on a locomotive. Many of us are hard pressed to justify $300. I have never seen price be an obstacle for anyone who wishes to get into this hobby. I know people in this hobby who live on $500/month, and get much more enjoyment out of it than the club member down the street with the 6-figure salary. Does income limit choice? Absolutely. Does it limit pleasure? Not in the least. The person who chooses not to pursue something based solely on the thought that if they can’t have the “best,” then it’s not worth getting into, is missing 98% of what life has to offer.

I do see narrow gauge steam railroading becoming a minority relative to standard gauge railroading, but not to the extent that it is in the smaller scales. I think our heritage of starting with narrow gauge trains, and the growing appeal of live steam will keep the narrow gauge movement afloat. I don’t think that available space will become a determining factor in deciding between narrow gauge and standard gauge. Both prototypes can be equally well worked into identical spaces. (A 28’ narrow gauge car in 1:20.3 is the same length as a 40’ car in 1:29; a 1:29 center cab diesel is actually smaller than a 1:20.3 Climax.) I do see 1:29 becoming the accepted scale for standard gauge railroading over 1:32. The latter will not disappear, but I don’t see widespread support for it to the extent of the 1:20.3 movement in narrow gauge circles. I don’t see widespread growth of 1:20.3, though. Narrow gauge enthusiasts tend to be set to their own favorite prototypes, which by and large are unique to one particular railroad. I see narrow gauge continuing as more of a craftsman’s hobby, much the same way it’s been in the smaller scales.

As for the future of the railroading hobby in general? Many of the grey-haired model railroaders I grew up around commonly lamented that "kids" my age wouldn't ever be interested in trains. They figured it would die with them. If you look at the ages of many of us posting to this and other boards, we're in our 30s. We are those "kids," and we do have a strong interest. Many now have kids of our own to whom we're teaching the hobby. (Not yet here, but all things in time.) Interest waxes and wanes over the years, but somehow, it still manages to survive. There's just something magical about a train--a strange feeling that has somehow failed to attach itself to any other form of transportation.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

The common theme in most of these postings is that steam and narrow gauge have a very broad appeal to most of us. I'm 64 and can only vaguely recall childhood memories of steam locos being used in real life. Folks in their 50's and 40's can only relate to steam trains from visits to RR tourist lines and RR museums. That's why it's so important for all of us to support those institutions. They're the only link we have to that past.

I tried unsuccessfully to bring my own two sons into the fraternity (maybe I tried too hard). I'm now starting to work on my two grandsons. My plan is to transition them from Thomas-the-tank-engine to occasional visits to places like steamtown and later a fullblown assult with weeklong visits to the Colorado NG RR's. The point is, we need to make sure that places like Durango& Silverton, Cumbres&Toutec, EBT, etc,etc (those of you in other countries fill in the blanks with your own favorite steam RR's) are going to be there for the coming generations.

The preservation of these institutions is important not just because we happen to like steam locomotives but because they're a living link to our past, a lesson in history. I've probably learned more about American history and culture while reading about old RR lines than I did in high school. I'd really like that resource to be available to my grandkids in the future. So, whenever we travel, I make it a point to visit the local tourist steam RR's or museums, buy a couple tickets, take the ride and buy a few items from the gift shop. And when we get back home, I share my experiences with friends and encourage them to go there themselves and visit. With the exception of Steamtown, there are very few if any RR institutions that are federally subsidized and only a handful that get any kind of State aid. Therefore it's up to us to keep these enterprises running.

Walt

We're with you on this Walt, and patronize RR operations when ever we travel.

OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] YOU SAID IT!!!!!!!!! WALT'S

[grandpopswalt]

The common theme in most of these postings is that steam and narrow gauge have a very broad appeal to most of us. I'm 64 and can only vaguely recall childhood memories of steam locos being used in real life. Folks in their 50's and 40's can only relate to steam trains from visits to RR tourist lines and RR museums. That's why it's so important for all of us to support those institutions. They're the only link we have to that past.

I tried unsuccessfully to bring my own two sons into the fraternity (maybe I tried too hard). I'm now starting to work on my two grandsons. My plan is to transition them from Thomas-the-tank-engine to occasional visits to places like steamtown and later a fullblown assult with weeklong visits to the Colorado NG RR's. The point is, we need to make sure that places like Durango& Silverton, Cumbres&Toutec, EBT, etc,etc (those of you in other countries fill in the blanks with your own favorite steam RR's) are going to be there for the coming generations.

The preservation of these institutions is important not just because we happen to like steam locomotives but because they're a living link to our past, a lesson in history. I've probably learned more about American history and culture while reading about old RR lines than I did in high school. I'd really like that resource to be available to my grandkids in the future. So, whenever we travel, I make it a point to visit the local tourist steam RR's or museums, buy a couple tickets, take the ride and buy a few items from the gift shop. And when we get back home, I share my experiences with friends and encourage them to go there themselves and visit. With the exception of Steamtown, there are very few if any RR institutions that are federally subsidized and only a handful that get any kind of State aid. Therefore it's up to us to keep these enterprises running.

Walt

[jtrost]

I said - stay the same. But that may require some explanation. I believe we will continue to have a variety of scales, a variety of themes - everything from total adherence to prototype to the total "whimsy" (sorry, too much HGTV).

My hope is that, while within large scale the variety remains, the hobby grows overall. Being a narrow gauge person, I am sometimes frustrated by the lack of 1:20.3 products available to me. [soapbox] The best way to solve this is not for narrow gauge to take over but for the entire hobby to increase. We all seem to be becoming more outdoorsy. What better way to be outside when we're not rock climbing or whitewater kayaking?

[Marty Cozad]

I voted , stay the same, which as i see it. All areas are growing and companies are all tring to be the top dog. And the quality is getting better. New folks keep popping up and the web sites seem to be more active.

[Anonymous]

ronnielouw, I live in Columbus, Ohio and I plan on taking my daughters to Nelsonville Ohio probably not till next spring though, to the Hocking Valley Railway for a RIDE ON SOME STEAM[:D]! My Dad drug me around railfanning on are family vacations as a kid, sometimes there wern't any trains just a Tall tall trestle. My Dad will go with us as well. Your're right though you got to ride on one to appreciate it and take it all in, the slack coming out then the jerk of movement and the SMELL of smoke! My Dad use to pullover and stop are car just to watch a trian go by, they were deisels though, BUT BY GOD THEY HAD A CABOOSE BACK THEN!

[Anonymous]

Carpenter Matt

Yes, I agree you must expose the children to it as much as possible. That's fine but the problem still remains - how do you even begin to describe the sound, the smell, the feeling of a steam engine? The toy shops are full of dinosaurs. The kids love them, although when last did anybody see a live one? So maybe with the help of museums and videos we can keep the flame burning. But still, it's not the same as being there.

I'm not starting an argument here - just agreeing with you in my own way. [8D]

Regards

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ronnielouw

Here I am at the bottom end of the world in Port Elizabeth. About the best thing I can say about Port Elizabeth is that if the planet Earth ever needed an enema, this is where they would insert the pipe. Due to my location I am isolated from the mainstream but I crawl all over the Internet and I subscribe to GR and previously MR. I therefore consider myself to be fairly clued up on the model railroad scene and my perspective of where it is going is as follows:

People build models of what appeals to them. This appeal is nostalgic, emotional, and personal. We want to reproduce our childhood memories and experiences. We want to surround ourselves with models or scenes that reinforce those memories. My childhood memories are of steam engines, and being from a railway family, I had unlimited access to them. I could go down to my father's office on the station and sit there for hours watching the locos come past. I was always hanging over the balcony of the first coach behind the tender, getting covered in soot and ash. The smell of coal smoke was sweeter than any perfume. I loved it.

In later years when steam has disappeared from South African Railways, I became interested in the 2 foot narrow gauge railway that runs from Port Elizabeth to Avontuur. This has a steam hauled tourist train known as the "Apple Express". I became fascinated with everything that had the "narrow gauge" imprint on it - tight curves, little locos, short trains, quaint equipment. The merger of my childhood experiences of the main line and my adult experiences of the narrow gauge have ensured that my model railway is strictly narrow gauge steam. I do not want and will not build anything else. I am living my memories.

My step-daughter's fiance is a young man who is fascinated by what I am doing and loves watching the trains run. One day he asked me if I knew where he could go to see an actual steam engine. He has never seen a real one in his life. This was a sad revelation to me who grew up with them and knew them so well. How do I even begin to explain to this lad what they sound like, what they smell like? It got me thinking on what the next generation of model railroader would be like, and what would they want. Where did I think the hobby was heading?

I used my perception of the youth of today to try and imagine the model railway of the future. These are my thoughts: Steam will die with my generation and the next generation will be diesel oriented. Narrow gauge short lines will also die with my age group because that era is over. High-speed main line intermodals or inter-city express runs with a train that looks to me more like an wingless airplane than a "real" train. Their introduction to technology from birth will ensure that today's kids will want model trains that are computerised, have digital control, sound effects and be virtually Playstations on wheels. If it isn't programmable, forget it.

Therefore (finally) I have finished the background reasoning for my vote, which is -

Standard gauge will be more popular than narrow gauge. (with long, modern trains being run)
Garden railways will become more like indoor model railroads. (with high technology control and operation)
And sadly (sniff snlff) [:(] not on your poll, but steam will die.

Steam will live a long as we as modelers expose the youth to them. My 8yr old loves steam or in her vocabulary a " Choo choo" I'm only 34 and to me there a romance to steam that the Deisel power just doesn't have. The popularity of trains in general I think has slipped with the end of the caboose. Wouldn't it be great if they started running cabooses again for nostalga's sake!

[Anonymous]

Here I am at the bottom end of the world in Port Elizabeth. About the best thing I can say about Port Elizabeth is that if the planet Earth ever needed an enema, this is where they would insert the pipe. Due to my location I am isolated from the mainstream but I crawl all over the Internet and I subscribe to GR and previously MR. I therefore consider myself to be fairly clued up on the model railroad scene and my perspective of where it is going is as follows:

People build models of what appeals to them. This appeal is nostalgic, emotional, and personal. We want to reproduce our childhood memories and experiences. We want to surround ourselves with models or scenes that reinforce those memories. My childhood memories are of steam engines, and being from a railway family, I had unlimited access to them. I could go down to my father's office on the station and sit there for hours watching the locos come past. I was always hanging over the balcony of the first coach behind the tender, getting covered in soot and ash. The smell of coal smoke was sweeter than any perfume. I loved it.

In later years when steam has disappeared from South African Railways, I became interested in the 2 foot narrow gauge railway that runs from Port Elizabeth to Avontuur. This has a steam hauled tourist train known as the "Apple Express". I became fascinated with everything that had the "narrow gauge" imprint on it - tight curves, little locos, short trains, quaint equipment. The merger of my childhood experiences of the main line and my adult experiences of the narrow gauge have ensured that my model railway is strictly narrow gauge steam. I do not want and will not build anything else. I am living my memories.

My step-daughter's fiance is a young man who is fascinated by what I am doing and loves watching the trains run. One day he asked me if I knew where he could go to see an actual steam engine. He has never seen a real one in his life. This was a sad revelation to me who grew up with them and knew them so well. How do I even begin to explain to this lad what they sound like, what they smell like? It got me thinking on what the next generation of model railroader would be like, and what would they want. Where did I think the hobby was heading?

I used my perception of the youth of today to try and imagine the model railway of the future. These are my thoughts: Steam will die with my generation and the next generation will be diesel oriented. Narrow gauge short lines will also die with my age group because that era is over. High-speed main line intermodals or inter-city express runs with a train that looks to me more like an wingless airplane than a "real" train. Their introduction to technology from birth will ensure that today's kids will want model trains that are computerised, have digital control, sound effects and be virtually Playstations on wheels. If it isn't programmable, forget it.

Therefore (finally) I have finished the background reasoning for my vote, which is -

Standard gauge will be more popular than narrow gauge. (with long, modern trains being run)
Garden railways will become more like indoor model railroads. (with high technology control and operation)
And sadly (sniff snlff) [:(] not on your poll, but steam will die.

[Anonymous]

the one hope i have for garden trains is mine will soon get in to the garden and out of the house. I hope Ihope Ihope[:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Rene,

I voted that standard gauge wiill grab more of the market share. As already stated, there are 4 or 5 new standard gauge offerings for every new NG item.

I think that 7/8" scale will become more popular as more RTR equipment becomes available.

My preference is and always will be narrow gauge. I model 1:24 but I'm eventually going to stick my toe in the 1:13.7 pool as well. I can always go down to the tracks and watch a 100 car train roll by or an Amtrack metroliner fly by at 80MPH on Laser straight track, that's reality. But I cannot go down there and see a dirty, sooty, smoky steamer pulling a short string of wooden cars around sharp curves through picturesque mountain scences, that's magic!

Walt

I have to agree with Walt, the magic of narrow gauge will hold my attention in all its forms, from 42" right down to the 15" lines. The 7/8 scale bug is also flittering around my layout looking for a place to land; and one day I'm sure it will. I don't know if 7/8 scale will replace the "G" scale or just run at different times with 7/8 scale buildings...only time will tell.

Having said this it may seem odd that I am also gathering HO standard gauge equipment and structures for a urban style switching layout in my basement.

Over all I think large scale will go the way of all other scales (except tin plate) with standard gauge leading the pack then narrow gauge and following close behind will be us rebels modeling in odd scales on odd gauge track.

OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Hi Rene
I think the hobby will decline suburban blocks of land are geting smaller
the trains are geting for ever larger the prices are starting to go through the roof. the tolal lack of at least standardised, track and wheel standards and coupling type and hight.
Will all I think put it out of reach of the average family on an average pay packet for his country of residence.
It will end up becoming the realm of those who have the skills to build thier own or where lucky enough to inherit one.
We all do our own thing but I think we are all going to to have to learn how to build our own with the current trends of the manufacturers to build too large
in size and price with no standards common to all manufacturers.
A pesamistic view point but I think a realistic one.
A few people I know have said to big for thier block and to expencive to even think about it
regards John

[Anonymous]

Different people model different scales so had to go with I do my own thing.
This Hobby will go on a up swing.

[Anonymous]

I voted "I don't care I do my own thing" but that is not true I do care, but you didn't have any category near what i think.

1/ It is oneof the fastest growing pasttimes in the world and will become much bigger over the next ten years.

2/ It will become more electronic, people will want to have a system like the the MTS but won't pay the money. If you had a fully digitally controlled system, with locos with sound you just woudn't be bothered with going back to anything less. I can see it here, devoted old train people use my MTS and they all say what are we going to do with our layouts? Even smaller guage users are looking on their equipment as obsolescent.

3/ Equipment will become cheaper, as the scale of trading increases and automation makes big quantity runs really cheap. They will have to as the Chinese will get up to speed and offer good stuff for incredibly low prices just like power tools etc.

4/ You can see by this forum it is becoming more international and the ideas of Americans wanting yankee layous and poms wanting English layouts and even us Aussies will just have to look at what others are doing.

5/ as many of us live in cities, we will possiby look to producing a city layout (I'm considering one right now). We all look to emulate what we see around us.

6/ The gauge will not change, as we all want more for our dollar and that means standardisation.

Regrds

Ian (The Oracle)

[Anonymous]

Hello Rene,
I also voted,I will do my own thing.Before I joined this forum it was only me and my Dad that used garden railways.When you read the magazines ect ,they always concentrate on the perfect layouts.Although this gives something for many people to aspire to,it can be hard on the person just starting out on a limited budget.That's what I like about this forum.It's a mixture of everyone.The people that have been doing this for years are happily willing to share their knowledge without various cutting remarks.I don't think this exists on any other forum.It would be nice if some of the magazines could do some articles on the fledgling layouts.Revisits could be arranged to see the progression.This could give a huge boost to the newcomers.After all,more people,more money,more products.
Sorry started to ramble[oops]
Troy

[Anonymous]

Rene
I'll do my own thing ,AS LONG AS MY HEALTH HOLDS OUT. ben [2c] [:)]

[Anonymous]

Rene, I voted more like indoors if I interpeded it right in meaning it's catching on. I don't really know how many members are on this forum or subscribe to GR, but due to the amount of [#welcome]'s we do around here I'd say it's growing. I think more publicity in the mag of this forum would help increase or even keep people in the hobby because you can get ?'s answered quickly instead of writting in and hoping your question gets answered. My draw to this end of spectrum of model RR has been the lack of interior space in what I would like to have, so I decided to go outside. The total concept of this hobby's ability to create a totally different RR outdoors than you can indoors...Sorry Vic.
Another draw I believe for some is the ablity to create on your own without a magifying glass. GR/large scale in general is as close to most of us will come to running the real thing especially LIVE STEAM.

Sorry for the rambling shouldn't have drank a pot and half of coffee this morning[:D]

[grandpopswalt]

Rene,

I voted that standard gauge wiill grab more of the market share. As already stated, there are 4 or 5 new standard gauge offerings for every new NG item.

I think that 7/8" scale will become more popular as more RTR equipment becomes available.

My preference is and always will be narrow gauge. I model 1:24 but I'm eventually going to stick my toe in the 1:13.7 pool as well. I can always go down to the tracks and watch a 100 car train roll by or an Amtrack metroliner fly by at 80MPH on Laser straight track, that's reality. But I cannot go down there and see a dirty, sooty, smoky steamer pulling a short string of wooden cars around sharp curves through picturesque mountain scences, that's magic!

Walt

[vsmith]

Based on the latest new item being marketed Standard Guage trains are going to become predominant, but narrow gauge will still be there just not as dominant as it has been in past years.

The general acceptance of wider radius curves and longer stock has really opened the doors for large scale standard guage items. Look at AC's DASH-9 . Man has that been popular, as has USA's and AC's long streamline passenger cars. MTH has a Challenger for sale and will be selling a Big Boy next year! A Big Boy for chriss-sakes!

Bachmann won't make a K-series because they claim its too big, yet MTH can produce a loco thats over 4 FEET LONG and has will have a massive overhang if the Challenger is any measure! So now we are getting 5 to 6 new standard guage items each year and often only ONE new item for narrow guage.

Also more and more garden rr's are embracing the larger broader vista's that traditional mainline railroading offer. Need I mention Marty's spectacular layout? What's missing in 1/32 & 1/29 is scale buildnings, kinda like 1/20.3 in that respect.

I will not get into whether 1/29 Aristo/USA or 1/32 MTH/Marklin will win the scale wars. But they will be side by side for a while. If MTH decides to get into large scale on a scale like AC or USA, 1/29 could finally face a real scale challenge. I feal in the long run more modelers especially the ones coming up from HO or O will demand more accurate "scale models" as time progresses.

I have to admit, when I saw the Big Boy in a MTH catalog I found myself saying " I have to have one of these" Of course I would have to build a layout for this and I actually sketched out a simple loop with 10' dia curves just so I could, at least in my own mind, run this beauty.

[bman36]

Hi Rene,
I did'nt vote since I feel it will grow as whole. Mainline Standard if definately on the upswing. It's obvious by the increase in products out there. Track is quickly following suit. Large gentle curves, wide switches etc. are pointing toward "Mega Layouts" that will require a lot of space to build. Longer trains of 50 cars and up will be seen a lot more with the new motive power being able to really "Haul". As for myself My love for Narrow Gauge continues to grow but Standard is really looking awesome. My plans are to continue modelling Narrow Gauge indoors and Standard outside. For me that's the best of both worlds. Another thing continuing to increase is QUALITY! Modern technology is ever increasing at a mind boggling rate. Some really awesome innovations are being added every year to our trains. The future looks great! Later eh...Brian.

[emipapa]

Good Morning Rene,
My choise was "DON'T CARE, I DO MY OWN THING"
I live in an area that has but one outlet for G-Scale and at best it is only has a representative stock. Thay say they can order whatever you want but why pay their price when I can go on line and get what I want. I must say that going on line is like opening the doors to a new world.
Ron

[Rene Schweitzer]

Ok, so maybe we can't predict the future, but any thoughts on where the hobby might be heading?