Question on the Bachmann Mini-Mogul (pulling power)

[Anonymous]

I have a question about the pulling power of the Bachmann Baldwin “Industrial” Mogul 2-6-0. I currently own one and have had no trouble with it on my short stretches of “test track.” I know based on what has been commented on it that its pulling power is limited. Here is my question, When I have my outdoor layout with large stretches of track and at least four curves (5 whatever foot diameter), what type of consist can I expect for it to pull?

I intend to have a pretty level grade (aside from natural settling, shifting and rain damage which will be repaired as needed) no major percents. Can I run three passenger coaches Bachmann make (combine, coach and observation/caboose)? Will it safely/successfully pull two full sized Bachmann Boxcars, a flat car a tank car and a caboose?

It will make a great switch engine when I get my finances together for a Spectrum or Tenth Anniversary Ten Wheeler, but it will serve a duel role.

Any takers?
[8D]

[Anonymous]

Hey Capt C, Havent seen a post from you in a while, glad to see your still a kicken [:D] I think it was Cacole on the wheel truck thread i started was telling me about adding roller bearings to wheels to reduce drag on the cars and increase the number of cars being pulled. This might give your engine the help it needs. He said aristocraft makes them for their wheel and trucks, but he gave the name of someone who fix you up.. but I can't remember who it was.

Check the thread for proper info

[toenailridgesl]

Capt.,
The Indy mogul is a very small loco and would only have had a consist of 2 or 3 cars at a time. The Indy has the same motor as the Annie so it's not a power problem, rather a traction one. The Bachmann version is very light & benefits greatly from the addition of weight over the driving wheels. It's not the power of the loco that restricts it, rather wheel-slip due to lack of weight. Stick-on mag wheel weights in and under the boiler, fill the domes with lead shot, same with the air tanks, will improve it's pulling power but still only to 3 or 4 B/mann coaches. And if they are the new coaches with the light pickup from the trucks they will inhibit it further. Apparently the thing to do with those coach trucks is to replace the power wipers with LGB ones (the mounts are already molded into the B/mann trucks).

[Anonymous]

Thanks Carpenter Matt and Toenailridgesl,

I've been pretty busy now that school is back in session, only time to read and make a few posts here and there.

Yes, now that you mention it, I've noticed that when the Indy stops it has a bit of a slide. I guess that's from lack of weight. I'll give some of those methods a try.

I've never intended for that locomotive to move large consists, but I think a small hauls might look attractive with it. Maybe a passenger coach or two, for days of light passenger revenue. Right now I have it and a "trainset" Annie. I'm going for one of those newer better detailed "tenth anno" ones next.

Again thanks

[Anonymous]

I have been up dating my Charles Ro box cars to steel wheel sets which I have been told by several they do make a differance.
Now as for a shock factor I was looking at new stock of MTH cars and there coming with steel wheel sets and look very nice. As nice as Charles Ros cars but I thought I would have never said that.

[grandpopswalt]

Hi Cappy,

Welcome back, glad to see you're back among us. Looks as though we're travelling parallel paths. I just picked up an Indy Mogul as well. Sweet looking little critter isn't it? I think that after doing the kitbash as described in the last issue of GR it wiil be just the ticket on my 1:24 scale road.

I've done a little testing and here's what I've learned: 1- I think this motor is probably rated at 12VDC. I applied 17 volts and it took off at what looked like 100 MPH.. 2- It draws fairly high current. I measured about 240 ma (milliamps) with just the tender and only 3 volts applied. 3- Unless a lot of weight is added it will not pull more than 4 cars. I stalled the engine and noted that at 1.75 volts applied it starts to slip at 345 ma (it was drawing 325 ma pulling 4 cars). I'm not sure this engine is a good candidate for battery power. If you weighted it enough to pull 6 or 7 cars it would probably draw in excess of 500 ma. You'd have to use some fairly husky batteries to get any kind of useful running time and there isn't much room for batteries on this little cutie. I suppose that if you equipped all your cars with metal wheels and ball bearings you'd be able to pull a few more cars and draw a little less current. But your track would need to be dead flat with wide curves. I think that Phil Creer (Toenailridges) is in the process of installing batteries and Train Engineer in his Indy Mogul. It will be interesting to see what he learns.

Good luck teaching em young un's.

Walt

[grandpopswalt]

Phil,

Have you already added weight to your Indy? Have you considered how much extra load the additional weight will put on the gears/gearbox? Bachmann doesn't have a good track record with regard to geartrains, even on the newer, more expensive locomotives, at least that's the impression I get from visiting the B'mann website forums.

Walt

[toenailridgesl]

Walt,
Yup, have added the weight, about 7oz all up. Can't make a comment re mine & longevity as it has only been test run, still not fully R/C converted. However, Dave Goodson (The Old Curmudgeon) in Seattle is the semi-official Bachmann tester (he does the GR mag B/mann reviews too) & he reckons the Indy is bullet-proof. Post the question over on http://www.mylargescale.com forum & get flooded with info :)

[grandpopswalt]

Phil,

Thanks for the info. If I find something that looks like it might be trouble, I'll let you know.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Grandpopswalt,

Thank you for the quality of your post and the kind words to a teacher.

I mean to run trains of limited length, busted trains and switching assignments, and minor hauls between my cities (of which I plan to have three). If you could do me a favor and see how it handles three Bachmann Coaches and maybe another train of a 2 boxcars, a flatcar and a bobber caboose (if you have them) on a somewhat flat grade I would be much obliged.

It is a fine looking locomotive, I’ve lettered and numbered it with my NMRR monikers.

You can see a photo of it here with some scratch-built things in the background…

http://normamicaela.tripod.com/engines.html


I’m building a good complement of rolling stock, I’ve got two of the three passenger coaches I wanted and am saving for a sampling of freight cars. My mainline locomotives will be of sterner stuff than the Indy.

I also have made a good collection of funds for that fence I always talk about, about 1/3 the way to go. I won’t be long now.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by toenailridgesl

Walt,
Yup, have added the weight, about 7oz all up. Can't make a comment re mine & longevity as it has only been test run, still not fully R/C converted. However, Dave Goodson (The Old Curmudgeon) in Seattle is the semi-official Bachmann tester (he does the GR mag B/mann reviews too) & he reckons the Indy is bullet-proof. Post the question over on http://www.mylargescale.com forum & get flooded with info :)

Phil and Gramps,

Please forgive my ignorance, but how does one “weight” the locomotive. One mentioned several methods, but I need more of a concept of what needs to be done.

Additionally, I have heard that the original(-ish) "Annies" suffered form longevity problems. I currently own one and plan to use it sparringly. How much of an issue is this really?

Thanks,
Capt Carrales

[grandpopswalt]

Cappy,

I can't speak to the issue of the "Annie's" quality but I'll share what I know about "weighting" an engine. You probably don't need a lecture on locomotive wheel slipping, but here goes anyway. A loco's "tractive effort" is a measure of how much it can pull, measured in tons. number of cars, etc. That pulling power is the product of both available torque and the adhesion of the drivers to the rails. The lighter the engine, the more likely it is to slip under load, regardless of how much power it has. Therefore if we add weight to the loco causing more friction between the drivers and the rails it will be able to pull more cars, tons, etc before the wheels start to slip. What's true in real life is also true in our miniatures, the bigger, heavier engines can pull more cars than the smaller, lighter ones. So in the case of the Indy, we put as much weight in the boiler, steam domes, air tanks as possible. Lead is prefered because it is the most dense. Auto wheel weights work well.

Long winded way of saying, if you make it heavier it will pull more.

Walt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Cappy,

I can't speak to the issue of the "Annie's" quality but I'll share what I know about "weighting" an engine. You probably don't need a lecture on locomotive wheel slipping, but here goes anyway. A loco's "tractive effort" is a measure of how much it can pull, measured in tons. number of cars, etc. That pulling power is the product of both available torque and the adhesion of the drivers to the rails. The lighter the engine, the more likely it is to slip under load, regardless of how much power it has. Therefore if we add weight to the loco causing more friction between the drivers and the rails it will be able to pull more cars, tons, etc before the wheels start to slip. What's true in real life is also true in our miniatures, the bigger, heavier engines can pull more cars than the smaller, lighter ones. So in the case of the Indy, we put as much weight in the boiler, steam domes, air tanks as possible. Lead is prefered because it is the most dense. Auto wheel weights work well.

Long winded way of saying, if you make it heavier it will pull more.

Walt

I guess my next question is this...how do I bust it open and put it together without turning it into junk. This is the part that really leaves me...weary[V]

[grandpopswalt]

Cappy,

I am about to find that out myself very soon. If I'm successful I'll certainly let you know. In the meantime, maybe Phil can enlighten us both since he's already done it.

Walt

[toenailridgesl]

I'm not the expert on disassembling these things. I've passed this topic onto the world expert on them, TOC aka Dave Goodson. Hopefully he'll weigh in with his wealth of knowledge.

[Curmudgeon]

What you have to do is decide whether or not you want the nmra/LS polarity switch and smoke.
If not, open it up (memory.....2 screws in back, smokebox supports, one screw between cylinders), pull off boiler and then remove 4 belly pan screws, remove belly pan and running board/air tanks.
Remove circuit board, smoke unit, switches from smokebox.
You will hard-wire headlight (with a 220 ohm to 1K ohm dropping resistor for head AND taillight) motor to chassis to operate in correct direction.
Remove circuit board mounts from boiler.
I use NAPA stick-on tire weights, from which I peel off the double-backed tape.
Cut to length, mount with clear silicone sealer (dries faster than the same stuff doctored with color), and you can tag them with hot-glue to hold in place until set.
As many layers as you can fit, plus in the belly pan.
You will never get as much in this as you can easily fit into a 4-6-0, so motor / geartrain overload is not really a concern.
The concern is the thin plastic axle bearings.
We have about 2 pounds (I think) in ours, will pull a battery car, nine 4-wheel tippers and a bobber caboose up a 4% as long as you don't stop, and it hasn't failed yet, altho we do keep the axles well oiled.
So, make up your mind and do it!
If you need smoke, add something that wortks like a Seuthe generator.
TOC