I too make locos because I like that particular loco. Some people have questioned my sense of taste -but this does not bother me!!! I like the challenge of building my locos and I will be the first to admit that they are getting tougher to work out how to get running at 1:22.6 scale (Gauge '3').
I agree it should be fun!!
regards
ralph
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
I have bought sets and like them. I think they can be a bargain if you are not a purist in running.
My trains are for fun, and to me they are toys..... I like toys!!
I mix 1/22.5 and 1.29 on the same train. I run a mogul and a jenny at the same time.
My trains are for my enjoyment, my way for me.
PS, I made a Disney train, and a towmater powered tow truck and kids love them.
I read two recent threads lately and thought I would throw in a POV from a newbie.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/202258.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/202284.aspx
I did lots of research, read everything I could on this forum and others.
I agree, buy good quality up front.
Don't however, get caught up in thinking of your purchase as an investment. That is only a justification for spending on a toy. The value is the use and enjoyment you get using the toy.
Battery or Track power? I see the benefit of both, but for novice, learning curve , track power suited me.
I bought USA motive power and rolling stock, and transformer.
Piko brass track. Six foot curve.
Well, testing was not supposed to be until spring, but, well, u know, we had some unseasonably warm weather......
I couldn't be happier with my selection.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v670/JWEBDRD/Garden%20Trains/?action=view¤t=GardenTrainEdit.mp4
@ Gaugemaster-- define "reasonably priced." I wrote an article comparing many of the power supplies on the market back in 2002, though I forget which issue. Most are still on the market, and few new ones have come on the market since then. Note also that some power supplies are just that--something that provides power to a separate throttle (the thing with the knobs and switches to control the trains), while others are combined. Lots of options. If you want basic walk-around control, consider something like Aristo-Craft's Train Engineer. You get a power supply of your choice, then hook it to a trackside "base station" which receives its instructions from a handheld controller. (Either their older "Train Engineer" or their new "Revolution" systems will work well. The older stuff can usually be found on the used market rather inexpensively.) For a power supply, I've heard good things about Meanwell power supplies. I know a few guys who use their 24-volt power supplies and are nothing but pleased with them.
If you want just a combined unit that you can sit on a table or desk or something, then Bridgewerks' stuff seems to be popular, though watch their top-end voltage. When I tested them for the article, they were pushing 30 volts in some cases. MRC makes a 10-amp unit that also gets high marks from users. (It wasn't part of the article, but I reviewed it shortly after.)
@ St. Francis-- e-mail me off list. I'll help you.
Later,
K
gaugemaster The thread seems to have been hijacked, to get back on track, 'scuze the pun. I think sets are out. USA trains says they won't have stock till the first of the year. I had decided on a la cart , anyhow..still need a recommendation on a reasonably priced, yet adequate power supply.
The thread seems to have been hijacked, to get back on track, 'scuze the pun. I think sets are out. USA trains says they won't have stock till the first of the year. I had decided on a la cart , anyhow..still need a recommendation on a reasonably priced, yet adequate power supply.
Sorry about that....I thought you had pretty much decided to go battery remote control. I think I am.
I need to find a system, either airwire or something like it, and battery packs and all that. I'm gonna need some help because it looks expensive and I don't want to do any experimenting!
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
...do you know what the Phoenix Sound board draws? How about the Bachmann Shay?...
The current draw of the sound will be somewhat dependent on the volume at which it's being played. Suffice to say, though, I've never noticed any significant change in run time on locos equipped with sound versus not. I want to say it's less than 0.1 amp, but it's been a while since I actually measured it. Since it doesn't seem to affect performance or battery life, I don't worry about it.
As for the locomotive itself, that's also dependent on other factors--curves, grades, length of the train, etc. Just because it's got two or three motors, however, does not mean it draws twice or three times as much current as a loco with just one, because the motors are working together, hence drawing less current each. My old Heisler (2 motors) would run about the same length of time as any of my other locos with one motor, plus or minus a few minutes depending on how I was running. On my railroad, most of my locos draw between 0.5 and 1 amp depending on how I'm running them.
I converted my Shay to Airwire with Phoenix sound. I don't run smoke but I do run LED lights. I cut all the Bachmann wires off their boards and removed the boards. I don't have any power going to the wheel pickups. I'm pretty sure there are three motors on my 3-Truck Shay but I have no idea what the average current draw is on those. The battery has 7 Ah @ 12 volts and I run 3 to 5 times a day (more runs on the weekend) for about 15 to 20 minutes per run. The specs on the Airwire decoder says it will deliver up to 10 amps but I don't think I'm drawing anywhere near that much since I can get more than 7 hours of run time a week.
Greg - do you know what the Phoenix Sound board draws? How about the Bachmann Shay?
Rex
Those who are telling you 2 hours max on batteries are spouting very old information. "Back in the day," sure... 2 hours was a pretty good run, but battery technology has come a l--o--n--g way since that time. With today's Lithium battery technology (Li-Ion and its newer derivatives), you can get 4 hour run times from a battery pack about the same size as a deck of cards. It's really cool stuff. You can also get very small yet powerful battery packs for small locos and "critters," making it easier to hide the battery from view. (Heck, some folks are even operating their O-scale indoor lines on batteries now.)
Rex in Pinetop My Shay pulls a temporary flat car with the temporary 12 volt 7Ah sealed battery and 5 log cars loaded with fairly heavy "real" logs. That battery lasts 7+ days. I charge it once a week during the season and it hasn't run dry yet. The 500 foot main line run for the Shay is 1.5% grade from the saw mill, through the helix and up the hill to the logging operation and on to the Gold mine and then back. It makes at least one run per set of visitors. During the week we have 3 to 5 sets of visitors per day with more during the weekends. The Connie and Thomas share run times depending on the age of the visitors. Thomas is a real hit with the 3-6 year olds. My regular Shay battery is a 15 cell NIMH pack @ 18v. It's smaller and lighter with more capacity and fits inside a log car so I don't need the flat car to carry it like I do the heavy, sealed 12v sport battery. Unfortunately I've had problems with that particular power pack. It has a thermo protection device to keep it from over heating when charging. That device has gone off and not reset turning the battery into an expensive paper weight. It's back to the dealer now for repair/replacement. My Connie runs the same battery without any problems in 3 years. Thomas runs a smaller 12 volt sealled sport battery. I charge them all once a week although I don't think they really need it. Rex
My Shay pulls a temporary flat car with the temporary 12 volt 7Ah sealed battery and 5 log cars loaded with fairly heavy "real" logs. That battery lasts 7+ days. I charge it once a week during the season and it hasn't run dry yet. The 500 foot main line run for the Shay is 1.5% grade from the saw mill, through the helix and up the hill to the logging operation and on to the Gold mine and then back. It makes at least one run per set of visitors. During the week we have 3 to 5 sets of visitors per day with more during the weekends. The Connie and Thomas share run times depending on the age of the visitors. Thomas is a real hit with the 3-6 year olds.
My regular Shay battery is a 15 cell NIMH pack @ 18v. It's smaller and lighter with more capacity and fits inside a log car so I don't need the flat car to carry it like I do the heavy, sealed 12v sport battery. Unfortunately I've had problems with that particular power pack. It has a thermo protection device to keep it from over heating when charging. That device has gone off and not reset turning the battery into an expensive paper weight. It's back to the dealer now for repair/replacement. My Connie runs the same battery without any problems in 3 years. Thomas runs a smaller 12 volt sealled sport battery. I charge them all once a week although I don't think they really need it.
What the heck is going on? Everybody's been telling me I'll get two hours tops on a battery.
How'd you convert? I have Bachman two-truck and three-truck shays, as well as a Bachman Climax...all have sound.
gaugemasterThanks for the replies. I am thinking track power for now, I do see the advantages of battery power, as well as DCC or Radio control. [snip] Speaking of DCC, train sounds, battery power, radio control, it appears as though none of the equipment is available with those options preinstalled. Either you need to be able to install yourself, or pay someone to do it. Odd, most equipment in other gauges at least come with a horn & whistle. Are there any turn key options, so to speak?
[snip]
Speaking of DCC, train sounds, battery power, radio control, it appears as though none of the equipment is available with those options preinstalled. Either you need to be able to install yourself, or pay someone to do it. Odd, most equipment in other gauges at least come with a horn & whistle.
Are there any turn key options, so to speak?
Actually Aristo-craft comes closest to offering "turn-key" battery-R/C operation (however it is essentially analog, not DCC) if you look at the way they make their locomotives - with a battery/track power switch built-in, and with a battery wiring harness plug at each end of the loco. Combine that with their new "Revolution" R/C controller and the way they make everything literally "plug and play", and you can have your battery R/C operation with minimal technical knowledge or installation. I am not aware of any other large scale manufacturer at this time who has gone to such lengths as to make battery/RC conversion that easy for a novice. Yes you have to purchase the R/C system separately, but I think most of their current locomotives have a socket that accepts the R/C receiver board.
I would go the route of getting everything seperate. Then you will have what you want and be much more happy.
Battery power is nice and its something I just started getting into myself. It can cost a lot (as mentioned above) but it also can be done at low cost. Thats the route I went with. I installed the critter control into a battery car and rewired the engine so I can switch it to track power or battery. I like to use battery power for when the tracks are snow/ice covered or if I want to run something in short notice. If want to sit and relaxe for a few houirs or work on the RR then track power is nice because I can let it run all day.
I really like the aristo craft track because you do not need rail clamps. Their joiners come with small screws that secure the joiners to the track. I have been using this system for 4 years now and have not had any problems with power to my tracks. I also use brass mainly because it was cheaper then stainless and it looks better once weathered. Dont use 4 or 5 ft track try to get 8ft at the min especially if you can the standard guage moderen route. The trains will look better. If going with narrow you can get away with smaller curves but again I would go 6.5ft curves that aristo makes. Those are my smalless curves i use and work for me. It will save you time and money in the long run.
Power supply I would go with at least the 10amp. Aristo makes the train engineer where you can control your trains like an RC. Again research and check out others websites and search topics in the search engine of the forumes. Keep us updated.
Do some research and try other forums like www.largescalecentral.com and www.mylargescale.com both great sites as well for information.
Started sets are simply "starter sets" which will quickly be outgrown. My wife, who supported my hobby from HO to N to Z, Gave "me" an LGB Starter set for Christmas about 15 years ago. I quickly found that even though I was the COO of this empire, she was yhe CEO, as she said "I want your train to run here and here is a drawing of what you need to build." The engine rarely operates, other than a few laps for "exercise" as a "local passenger" run. The power pack now operates an auto-reversing unit for the trollys. All the track from the starter set is on a chunk of plywood that goes under the christmas tree.
Ala-carte is really the only way to go.
Build bigger than your plans. If you think you only want 5 ft curves find a way to strech them out to 8 ft. If you think you can accomplish every thing with a 10 amp power supply, buy a 15 amp. You will quickly "outgrow" your plans, you'll fall in love with something that requres a larger curve, you'll quickly find you will need more power, if you push electrons down the rails.
I have a couple of friends that built small to start. Now their "spare parts bins" are full of 4ft, 6ft, & 8ft curves, 5amp & 10 amp powr supplies. Last summer one even told me "I should have listened to you 5 yeras ago, my storage shed has over a thousand dollars of stuff I've 'outgrown'."
Tom Trigg
Rex in Pinetop ......and a battery..... Rex
......and a battery.....
Rex, how much run time (battery life) do you get on your three-truck shay pulling a rather long set of cars?
Thanks.
Yes cost is a consideration with Battery Power R/C. You need a throttle, about $160, which will control multiple trains. You will need decoders for each of your engines, $80 - $140, plus wiring harnesses, $25, and a battery, $20 and up. You will not need a track power supply/controller, about $140 for something in the 15 amp range, nor wire and conduit. which will cost you a buck or two with copper prices being what they are and if you want to control more than one train at a time then you're talking a few more bucks for things like Train Engineer or others.
My point is to take a look at the systems prices of track power versus battery power a couple years down the line before you sink dollars into one and then change your mind like I did. Yes you can ease into the hobby either way but sunk costs are hard ...
On the subject of sound - yes there are products that come with factory installed sound. They generally cost more than the same engine without sound and some factory sound systems are not so good. My advice is to listen to the various options before buying. (Join a local club and go to open houses or read some of the product reviews in GR.) I found Phoenix Sound Systems to fit my needs so now I buy their kit when I buy an R/C decoder and install them at the same time on new engines.
Gaugemaster,
I agree with most of what has been already said, however I have a different opinion on some items.
I agree that battery power is a great option. Keep in mind that none of the equipment is offered from the OEMs in that configuration. So there will be the additional cost of the conversion from track to battery power, a good set of batteries and charger, and the radio equipment.
Aristo-Craft makes starter sets that come with their brass track (one of the major suppliers of outdoor track), and a power pack that will run one engine quite well. I own one of their starter power packs and have run my Bachmann K27 on our club layout with it for a short time and the loop is just short of 400 feet. These turn up on Ebay quite often at reasonable prices. I keep mine at home mostly for testing purposes. The Aristo-Craft engines are also good performers, although most seem to favor the USA engines for brute pulling power.
As has been stated, brass track is by and far the most popular, and available from several manufacturers. Stainless is also a good option, if your wallet can stand the cost, and also available from multiple manufacturers. Aluminum rail is also available, although the opinions on the reliable conductivity vary, it is a good option if you go battery power. Aluminum is available from several manufacturers as well. As for the cleaning aspect, several manufacturers make a track cleaning car, that if pushed ahead of the engine works well, usually takes a couple of laps to get a real good cleaning. That is what we use at the club I belong to. A scotch brite on the end of a spackle sanding pole will also work well. Under not circumstances use any type of sand paper. This will scratch the rail and just make it harder to keep clean.
Motive power and rolling stock will run the gamet from 1:32 all the way up to 1:20.3 and 1:13.7 depending on what you are modeling. From your comments, I assume you are looking for a mainline railroad, 1920s to present time period. USA Trans and Aristo-Craft will be the primary suppliers of equipment for that genre. They are both good quality and reasonably priced (if such a thing exists in G scale). USATs equipment is mostly in the 1:32 and 1:29 scale, where Aristo-Craft is almost exclusively 1:29. MTH also has some 1:32.
I hope I have not muddied the waters too much, these are just my observations and opinions.
Two other good sources of information are the forums at: www.largescalecentral.com and www.mylargescale.com. Both have some great people with a abundance of knowledge and a willingness to share that knowledge.
Great Railroading!!
Bob C
Thanks for the replies. I am thinking track power for now, I do see the advantages of battery power, as well as DCC or Radio control.
I think the cost of the above referenced options may be more than I want to spend initially. I am going to start small, but hopefully with good quality choices. I am still looking for a good choice for power. It looks like the MRC power g is not currently available. Maybe some of the items I have on my short list will become available by the time I pull the trigger. I would like to get started now, but I might wait till winter is winding down.
Hi Gaugemaster,
Here's a little tid bit that is "nice to know". Not all things are "equal" in G scale. While all of the equipment will run on G "Gauge" track, not all are the same "scale". For instance, an LGB tank car is a bit smaller than an identical model of a Bachmann tank car.
I mention this, not to dissuade you from buying a particular manufacturer, but just to let you know there's different scale sizes of equipment, while the track gauge stays the same.
Me? I have a little of each. I just don't run an LGB Tank Car next to a Bachmann Tank Car....You can, but it looks a little funny.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Richard
.
I endorse what the others have said, Also try to join a club where information is freely given.
I started with an Bachman big hauler steam engine. No track or power supply. That was becuase of being taken to a railway exhibition and a good deal. I then, "when money was around" bought a LGB starter set. The basic power unit worked for a while, but as I bought more track it eventually died. 2 Passenger carriages from the starter set are not used now. I then started to buy what I wanted, with only track power in mind.
It becomes a real pain cleaning track, with expasion and contraction in the weather, continuity of track power was a problem, and poor power pick up through the wheels of the trains due to the coating on the wheels wearing off, so I eventually I have converted to battery power. I use Hobby King gear, with 10x AA - 3000 batteries which run for hours my Lil Critters, Stainzs and lgb 2-4-0's
Here are some photos that I posted some time back on another site of my indoor - outdoor railway
http://continental-garden-t.motionforum.net/search?mode=searchbox&search_keywords=sandbar+%26+Mudcrab&show_results=posts
Hope the link works!
Cheers from Andrew
One of the opportunities with outside garden railroads is track cleaning. Track power generally requires clean track for conductivity. If you don't run trains every day (which helps keeps them clean) then you need to think about how you're going to polish your track (if you're going to use brass track). Stainless steel track is an alternative that doesn't require as much scrubbing but it costs more.
Think about track access in terms of cleaning too. Can you get to all sections of track without mashing plants or buildings? Polishing track and fixing conductivity dead spots meant I ran trains infrequently until I switched to R/C battery power. I now run trains anytime I want.
Some things to consider before you buy transformers and lots of wire.
I model both HO and G scale, and I agree with the previous comments that you will be better off purchasing individual items instead of a starter set, especially if that starter set is a Bachmann Big Hauler or whatever they're calling them today, because the Bachmann sets come with hollow steel rail that is unsuitable for outdoor use. I believe their power pack is barely able to run just one locomotive at a time due to its very limited amperage.
My first venture into G scale was a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 narrow gauge Consolidation, which I still have and use regularly; however, it does not have the original motor or gearing. Even the Spectrum line back then used plastic gears which were notorious for cracking, which resulted in the loco not moving. I replaced everything with a Barry's Big Trains motor and gearbox kit and have had no more problems with cracked gears.
I have read that Bachmann now uses metal gears, even in their Big Hauler line, so they must have finally realized that all the complaints about cracked gears was hurting their bottom line.
I run only radio controlled, battery power for all my G-scale trains because the Arizona soil is so hard that I would have needed to rent a ditch-witch to lay underground wiring. My back yard layout also has several reverse loops which would have been difficult to wire and control, but with battery power this is of no concern.
Another advantage to battery power is the ability to run even during a downpour. This past weekend (12-13 November) we had an open house at our local N-HO-G scale club. It rained all morning Sunday but I was able to run my trains for visitors who were brave enough to stand in the rain and watch them. At the club, too, there is no power connected to the track because most of it is PVC plastic rail, so everyone uses battery power.
I wholeheartedly agree with the a la carte method. Don't do starter sets if you think they offer something you may just be able to "live with." These ain't cheap. Get what you want the first time out of the gate. You don't mention where you live in VA, but if you're up for a drive across the Potomac to Annapolis MD, go to Star Hobbies. They specialize in large scale, and their prices are fair. They'll be able to get you set up with a good power supply, the right track for your available space, and a locomotive/rolling stock that you actually can get excited about.
"Ala carte" is the way to go, IMHO. You can get exactly what you want that way, without spending money on extra stuff you don't need or can't use. The power packs in starter sets tend to be barely minimal, the track radius too small, and the rolling stock is sometimes of lower quality than what you can get separately.
One correction. The starter sets come with 4' diameter curves, not radius.
Have fun with your trains
I posted this on another trains.com forum. A reader suggested I re post here. Thanks.
Newbie here.
I have had O gauge (family tradition) all my life. So I am not totally inexperienced.
I am thinking about G scale, my first foray. It will be outdoors.
I know from weeks of research a fair amount...like you want as big a radius as possible.
Most of the sets available come with 4 foot diameter curve, power pack, etc. A few questions. I have read that the USA Trains sets are a good starter, plenty of motive power for the future. Problem, they don't seem available at this time. Plus, I live in VA and have decided I want to model a railroad that could be seen locally IE CSX, N&W or one of their original roads b4 consolidation. Not available in a USA Trains set.
I like the PIKO, and could probably live with the PENN steam set. I am concerned about the transformer/power supply and future use. Even though it's not a local line, It would fit with our our seasons, shrubs, fall color. And, it is available. I also like that PIKO makes some buildings with an American motif, american west, while I wouldn't choose them, they do have a station, water tower, etc that would serviceable. At least its not all euro looking.
The Aristo offering, Little Critter? don't cut it on many levels, availability, stylistically, and again, power supply.
I am Thinking of ordering a la cart, USA Trains.Track, engine and cars. How about power supply? Is the 40 V that ships with their sets adequate, or how about their more expensive Track Power 10? I am leaning toward the MRC Power G. I will probably start with about 25 feet or less track. Primarily as a starter to learn a little first hand, and want some room to grow b4 buying a bigger unit. Space is always going to be a problem, so I may never get but so much bigger. Actually a 4/5 foot diameter suits my space, USA Trains has several diesels that will work on 5 feet and are available in road names I like.
Thanks for any advice, suggestions that you may want to offer.
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