Bonding the roadbed?

[Wild Bill]

Here's a question for the forum: In the Tips, and Tricks supliment, one of the suggestions for curing loose ballast is to use Quikrete Concrete Bonding Adhesive. Has anyone done this?
How is this used? Do you dilute it, like we do with Elmers, for indoor layouts?
Do you spray it on, say with a garden sprayer, or use a piantbrush?
OK, I know its more than one question, but what the hey.
Any help woud be greatly appreciated.
Wild Bill

[vsmith]

I believe it refers to spreading a little dry mortor powder over the ballast, brushing it into the rocks then using a mist spray to wet it or just letting natural humidity bond it to the stone. Its acts like a thin concrete to lock the stones together, but use to much and it WILL be like solid concrete, so be carefull with it, and make sure you wipe down your tracks good with a wet sponge to remove any excess powder or it will bond to the rail and mess up conductivity to the whels.

[BudSteinhoff]

Wild Bill,
You can not beat 1Part Titebond II, 2 parts water mixture.
I just use a dish soap bottle, pour it on and let it soak in.
Lasts and lasts even with all the Florida rains.
Bud[8D]

[Anonymous]

I would suggest that you do not bond the ballast near the sleepers (ties), as this inhibits their slight movement; which is important particularly whebn a gbig unit comes down at speed. They need flexibility to to allow for a small amount of movement to cushion the rails against forces both vertical and horizontal. I have sealed my ballast in a part of my layout and i regret it, too many derailments, compared to elsewhere.

However it is important to seal ballast down on embankements to stop it washing away particularly in a downpour such as we get here, when the monsoons arrive. I use simple portland cement cheep and it works. We have made a "salt shaker" type of device out of a tupperware container with holes drilled in its base and we put a fairly thik layer on in this way and water it in well with a light spray straight out of your garden hose. Leave for a day or so and its as good as gold, nice and solid with no outward sign of how it is all held together. We also use decrative ballast as it looks a lot nicer than fines, if you like i will send you a few photo's of what we have doen about a year ago and its still just perfect. email adress if you like.

I don't know if you have fish and chip shops in USA but they have great big salt shakers to salt a lot of fish and chips quickly and that is what we want to do with our cement. Hamburger shops may do the same over there i'm not sure.

Here in Australia cement is what they use to make concrete out of I know you Americans have a problem in differentiating between cement and concrete, but it is cement that we want not concrete mix.

If you have a section of rail that gets the ballast washed away regularly like i did; you use a mixture of 3 parts fines to 1 part cement mixed to a dryish consistency and fill the hole up with that and it is unlikely to be washed away again!


Regards ian

[Anonymous]

Hi Bill,
The only bit that I have bonded is were the track crosses our garden path and that is concreted to the path to stop the wife kicking the track when she walks over it. The rest of my track (still under construction) is laid in ballast and like Ian I have used decorative fine stones. If I ever decide to harden these up I will sprinkle cement onto the stones and mist water onto it.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

To use the Quikrete bonding adhesive you will dilute it by 1/4 with water. Place this diluted mixture into an old plastic "white glue" bottle to make it easier to dispense. Be sure to mark the bottle so it won't be confused with white glue.
Mist your ballest with water from a spray bottle then apply the adhesive. If your ballest is very deep bond it in layers.
This will take about 24 hours to firm up but will remain rubber-like indefinitely.

Several of us here in Minnesota are using this product on our ballest with great success.

OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

To use the Quikrete bonding adhesive you will dilute it by 1/4 with water. Place this diluted mixture into an old plastic "white glue" bottle to make it easier to dispense. Be sure to mark the bottle so it won't be confused with white glue.
Mist your ballest with water from a spray bottle then apply the adhesive. If your ballest is very deep bond it in layers.
This will take about 24 hours to firm up but will remain rubber-like indefinitely.

Several of us here in Minnesota are using this product on our ballest with great success.

OLD DAD

Really guys/gals label your bottles and place them high above the kids heads for safety.

One of my friends cleans carpet. Well he had a extra empty bottle (that cleaner stuff comes in) and placed his old fluid from radiator in it.
Next day after work one of his guys said that that "NEW cleaner you got was great but did not foam up"
Now he labels everthing.
Now I am waiting for him to label the babys food bottles!

[Wild Bill]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions!
I think OLD DAD hit it on ethe head though, I went out and bought a few gallons of the stuff, as it is a liqued. Its just a little thinner than Elmers, and I thought it should be diluted. I plan on using it only in a few trouble spots, along the walkways, and where the dogs like to trample it up, as well as in those areas that are elevated.
I should have introduced myself right off. as you can see this is only my third post.
I live 20 miles north of Reno, Nevada, on what we call a "gentlemans" ranch. The wife and I moved here last Decamber. Its a log home built like the old lodges in the national parks. On 12.8 acres. Main room is 20 feet high and supported by giant logs, etc.
Outside is 3 aceres of landscaping, with large koi pond, 6' high waterfall, and lawn all around seperated by walkways into 4 sections.
I started back into model RRing last year in "O" guage after a long absense, impresed by all the new electronics, and have a 12x12 layout up in the loft. but it will never be big enough. so... out doors we go!
Atlas started making their nickle-silver track thats UV proof last year, so I decided to do the grand experiment. I now have 550' of mainline, with about 200' of sidings after a lot of research. I'm happy to report it all works well with just a few exceptions, like the abouve. The track goes around the parimeter of the lawn, between the lawn, and the trees.(theres about a 50' buffer of rough, natural growth between lawn, and fence)
Around the veranda,and the Bar-b-que, down the walkway, along the brick flowerbed wall, under a corner set of steps as a tunnel, out over a haging grade along the next flower bed (slight depresion there), back out along another walkway to the back of that section of lawn, behind the pond, and the over the pond on a 30' bridge in front of the waterfall, around the hill that supports the waterfall by cutting across th lawn itself, and back to the edge of the lawn, in back. Hard to decribe W/O pictures.
I used all flex track, it bends by hand easy without having to take rails off the ties, and is heavy enough to stay down in the roadbed, which is a special "power company sand" type of fines, very clean, with no metal in it so O guage trains will not pick up fileings magneticly, and it packs down real good. no grade is greater than 2%. It took about 200 hours to build. All trains are DCS and work great!
Nothing like seeing a UP bigboy w/ 50 cars, or a Daylight w/ 12 car consits waorking it s way over the bridge, at dusk, in front of the waterfall, and reflecting in the water!!
I belong to the local garden RR club, and they as well as the local train store guys are watching with great intrest to see how it all turns out! Some of the club people have a lot of O guage, and can't wait to come run the stuff!
It turns out you get a lot more train into the same space, and all is in scale, except for that 3rd rail, which you only see in bright sun anyways.
Only problem is at night, when the toads come out and get electrocuted on the track.
If you don't get them up it can cause a derailment! Killed 9 of the suckers last night!
Didn't mean go on so long, but just had to brag a little! Now that the track is down we can strart on the landscaping, and buildings. Have 3 townsites planed.
Wild Bill

[vsmith]

O guage outdoors? Sounds cool, any photos?

I assume its dry weather only running, as O three rail and water dont mix (insert childhood memory here, Zzzzzap! Oooowwww! ).

[Wild Bill]

vsmith: As soon as I get the cd back form the photo shop there will be pictures. Will keep you all posted as soon as this happens.
Wild Bill

[Wild Bill]

Almost forgot, See abouve about ZZZaaping toads! Otherwise it seems to work fine when ground it wet from the sprinklers, no problem.

[Anonymous]

Hi Bill,
You went for 'O' because you have such a small garden!![:D] Looking forward to the pics.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Wild Bill]

Hi kimbrit,
Ain,t all that small when it comes to weeding it all![;)]