Trains.com

R/C live steam Q's

2442 views
9 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Sunny West Coast of Florida
  • 448 posts
R/C live steam Q's
Posted by IRB Souther Engineer on Monday, June 28, 2010 4:52 PM

If you R/C a live steam loco do you need to use a ground radio system? Also 2.4 GHz is the best frequency to use, right?

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Centennial, CO
  • 1,192 posts
Posted by kstrong on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:01 AM

Use the 2.4 gHz stuff. It's the same frequency band for both ground and air, so no worries there. Each receiver is specifically linked to the transmitter. It's also virtually impervious to glitching, which is quite rampant in live steam locos under the old 27 and 75mHz radios. You can get a 2-channel 2.4 gHz set for well under $100.

Later,

K

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Peak District UK
  • 809 posts
Posted by cabbage on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:14 AM
I think you are more than slightly confused... A Ground Radio system uses RF waves through the water bearing layers of the soil -this means VERY long wavelengths. Depending on the range that you wish to use the frequency can be 27Mhz, 43Mhz, 443Mhz, 889Mhz or 2.4Ghz (the specific frequencies will vary from country to country -please check for the R/C regs for your locale!) Have a look here and down load his PDF notes. http://www.brianjones.free-online.co.uk/page7.html The longer the wavelength the more it deals with hilly terrain, the shorter the wavelength the more it behaves as line of sight. I use 27Mhz and now 2.4Ghz systems. The reason is simple -cost! I can buy a brand new 2.4Ghz Rx+Tx for £30, to buy just a Rx for my 27Mhz Fuba costs £35. Both work very well in the terrain that I live in. But most importantly good earthing and isolation will be important if you are planning on an R/C controlled steam loco. "Binding" problems with the 2.4Ghz system can be common. If you are fortunate to live in a fairly remote area then the chances are that yours will be the only active 2.4Ghz system that the the Rx will "bind to", in high density areas it is not uncommon for the Rx to bind to the first system it sees -which is often not yours... To prevent this I normally perform the binding operations for my locos after dark when most other systems will be "off". regards ralph

The Home of Articulated Ugliness

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Centennial, CO
  • 1,192 posts
Posted by kstrong on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 12:31 AM

Ralph, in the US--prior to the advent of the 2.4 gHz spectrum for R/C--the radios were divided by frequency as to whether they were legal for use with ground-based R/C models (cars, boats, trains, etc.) or air-based models (planes, helicopters, etc.) This was done so to avoid issues of someone running an R/C car unknowingly taking over an R/C plane flying overhead. The 72 mHz spectrum was reserved for the airborne stuff, while 75 mHz spectrum was open for the grounded stuff. That's where the "ground frequency" reference comes from. It has nothing to do with sending radio waves through the ground. 

The problem was that finding ground frequency (75 mHz) controllers with more than two or three channels was fairly difficult, or at least expensive. I don't know what the difference was between a 4-channel radio in the 72 mHz spectrum vs. the 75 mHz spectrum in terms of the electronics, but the price difference could be as much as double. As a result, there were a fair number of 72 mHz systems being used on ground-based models that had more than two or three functions that needed to be controlled. (Just don't take it to any kind of formal R/C club.)

The 2.4 gHz technology's "binding" receivers and transmitters renders such differentiation based on use obsolete. If you're looking for cheap R/C stuff, you can get the old 72/75 mHz stuff pretty inexpensively as folks switch over to the 2.4 gHz stuff--but there's a distinct reason people are switching over. Interference in the 72/75 mHz spectrum is nasty.

Later,

K

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Peak District UK
  • 809 posts
Posted by cabbage on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:01 AM
Ok -problems between English and American languages again. I also have an alternate persona -I have a G8 and G3 radio transmission licence... regards ralph

The Home of Articulated Ugliness

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: AU
  • 320 posts
Posted by TonyWalsham on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:46 AM

Kevin.
You may not realise it but the 27 MHz band in the USA is also legal for both ground and air usage.

Ralph.
There are also restrictions in the UK on which frequencies can be used for air, which for ground.
There are/were rules governing the use of FM in the 27 MHz band.

The 2.4 GHz equipment is fantastic.
I have first hand experience of the RX's actually reliably picking up the signals even when mounted in a metal box such as the dummy water tanks on live steam locos.

Best wishes,

Tony Walsham

   (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.com

Modern technology.  Old fashioned reliability.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Centennial, CO
  • 1,192 posts
Posted by kstrong on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 5:03 PM

 

...the 27 MHz band in the USA is also legal for both ground and air usage...

True, but it is primarily the playground of the "toy" R/C side of things, not the hobbyist side. Most hobby shops I dealt with back when I was doing this kind of R/C only carried the 72/75 mHz stuff. I used to have a 27mHz 2-channel system, but it was a British export along with the locomotive it controlled. I think there were only 6 frequencies with the 27mHz spectrum, too--done by color. It's a very crowded spectrum, and there's absolutely no way I would ever dare fly a plane with it.

Later,

K

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Sunny West Coast of Florida
  • 448 posts
Posted by IRB Souther Engineer on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 5:41 PM

What company makes the best R/C equipment?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: AU
  • 320 posts
Posted by TonyWalsham on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:40 PM

"Best" is a subjective term.
It depends on what you want to do.
I find the best value for money is the low cost stuff such as E-Sky and the Exceed brand.
They cost around US$50 - US$60 for a 6 channel TX and TX on 2.4 GHz.  Extra RX's are less than US$20 each.
A Spektrum DX5e equivalent is about US$99.  Extra RX's are about US$50 each.
These are one model memory systems.  That is, they will only store the servo positions for one model.
Spektrum makes a 10 model memory system that allows you to program in the servo settings for up to 10 different locos.  Their TX and RX are about twice the price of the DX5e.
Do they work any better for live steam than the low cost systems?  I don't think so.

Whatever you do, do not skimp on servo quality.
I recommend only ever using servos with metal gears such as the Hi-Tec HS65MG and HS85MG types.

Best wishes,

Tony Walsham

   (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.com

Modern technology.  Old fashioned reliability.

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: North, San Diego Co., CA
  • 3,092 posts
Posted by ttrigg on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM

TonyWalsham
"Best" is a subjective term.

and it has caused many "heated" discussions here. Being an "analog dinosaur" I cannot give any advice on what to use. I can however advise on how to ask the question so others can give an accurate response. Tell the guys what features you "must have", "would like to have", and "these features would be nice", also list features not necessary. If possible, also include an acceptable price range.

Tom Trigg

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Garden Railways magazine. Please view our privacy policy