Power and control for a new layout

[Walrii]

We are putting a G-scale railroad in our backyard. No track is laid yet and we haven't settled on a power/control system. The locomotive is a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0. We have Aristo-craft code 332 brass track. The layout is one oval loop with a reversing loop inside. Total track length is about 150'. We would like to use the Tsunami TSU-1000 sound decoder. We are unlikely to ever have more locos on the layout at a time due to the size and expanding the layout is also unlikely due to the layout of the yard. We would like a remote/wireless control. We don't have any particular bias for or against battery, DC or DCC systems except that DCC seems to have way more capability than we need. This will primarily be a "display" layout not an "operating" layout. The only real controls we need are forward, back, whistle and bell (we are assuming that the steam engine related sounds can be turned on in some fashion and left that way). We live in north Texas where the weather goes from low 20s F to 100s F each year. We have read numerous forums and articles concerning the advantages and disadvantages of battery vs DC vs DCC. What we need are descriptions of setups that work well with all the part numbers and manufacturers. We are both mechanically inclined but electronic idiots! Thank you for your help.

[g. gage]

First off welcome aboard; There’s a multitude of power choices and more opinions, most all are good. So I will limit my dissertation to my fifteen years of garden railroading. I have track power using an Aristo Craft Ultima 10 amp power supply with an Aristo Train Engineer. My setup is radio control to the tracks which works well for me; I like to walk along with my trains around our 450’ loop.

 

Also this same equipment can be used with the Train Engineer on board using battery power eliminating Ultima power supply and track wiring.

 

Although Aristo (Crest) equipment would be considered proprietary they have good support and repair/warranty system. For the record I have no connection with Aristo or Crest.

 

Good luck, have fun, Rob

 

[kstrong]

If you're looking for a wireless system with sound control, here are a few options (in no particular order, nor exhaustive):

1) DCC-based system using Airwire or NCE controllers, Airwire receiver and throttle, third-party sound system; or either of those controllers with the G-wire receiver and QSI "Magnum" throttle/sound board.

2) Aristo-Craft "Revolution transmitter and receiver with third-party sound system

3) RCS's "Beltrol" or G-scale Graphics' "Railboss R/C" controls which utilize commercial 2.4 GHz transmitter/receivers, and a third-party sound system. 

4) RCS's "Elite" Battery R/C with third-party sound system.

5) Keithco's "Locolink" 

The reality is that any of these options will do what you need it to do. I've not used either of the options mentioned in #3, so I can't speak to how they operate. I've used commercial R/C transmitters to control trains in the past, and both these systems operate along the same lines. I've also not used Locolink except for demoing it at a convention once. That was quite some time ago, so I don't know how their current offering compares.

RCS's "Elite" R/C control is fairly simple to install. I've used it for close to 15 years. It's probably the most "basic" of all the options, but will definitely handle what you seem to be asking of it. My only complaint with it is that the range is inconsistent. There are "tricks" to improve the range, but I have to think with the other options now on the market, the better "trick" is to go with the newer, more functional systems.

Of the other two options, I think the Aristo-Craft is probably the best option for someone coming into this fairly blind. It's got a good list of features, and while not as feature-heavy as the DCC-based systems will more than handle your needs. You can hook any third-party sound system up to it without difficulty. Programming it is very straightforward and "plain english."

If you wanted to go a bit more feature heavy, the NCE controller is a close second. I like that it's got a thumbwheel to control the speed of the train instead of just pushbuttons. Of course, it's not compatible with the Revolution, so your options with the NCE are either the G-wire receiver with a QSI "Magnum" throttle/sound board, or the Airwire G2 receiver/throttle board with a third-party sound system. While these systems are DCC-based, there's a likelihood that you can hook them up and not ever have to learn anything having to do with DCC programming. I will mention that the QSI board doesn't always play nicely with Bachmann motors with the default settings, so you may have to go in and reprogram one of the parameters.

Regardless of which system you use, you'll want to remove Bachmann's factory noise suppression. It's known to play havoc with a number of systems. You can also opt for the Airwire transmitters, though they have fewer features than the NCE. But simpler is sometimes better, and if you've only got one loco at a time running, simple is more than adequate. I've used the Airwire stuff on my dad's railroad, and have been impressed with their operation.

For third-party sound systems, the gold standard is Phoenix. Either their P5 or PB9 boards will work, though the P5 might need an auxiliary "P5T" interface board to work with the non-DCC protocol systems. Dallee Electronics makes a cheaper sound system, but it doesn' thave quite as much flexibility in terms of control.

So, while that's hardly exhaustive, it's at least an overview of some of the "pairing" options available.

Later,

K 

[two tone]

Hi Just a little note if you would like to put where you are in your bio it helps when we reply to you at any time plus you my find some one in your neck of the woods thatmay offer help or call and give advice if thats what you want         Wecome and enjoy the forum

[two tone]

Hi    Welcome to the forum     It help us if we have a rough idea where you are when offering advice, so if you would like to put in your bio a bit of info        as you can see I live in the UK    Enjoy the forum

[Greg Elmassian]

With few locos and a reversing loop, track powered DCC would cost more than most solutions.

Reversing loops on DC need some form of automation, and with your weather, I would not want to have the relays and sensors out there.

I would go battery and either something like Airwire/NCE and the Airwire/Phoenix receiver, or the QSI/Gwire receiver. 

That would give lots of control and a nice repertoire of sounds, although the QSI will give you up to 30 independently controllable sounds, the Phoenix less than half that. (But the Phoenix sound is a bit better in my opinion for certain locos).

If you wanted to spend less, then Tony's RCS system with a Phoenix is great, and a less complex interface and rock solid hardware.

In your case, I do not see advantages of track power.

Regards, Greg

p.s. You do NOT need to remove the suppression equipment with modern DCC decoders, specifically the QSI mentioned here. I have many DCC locos and have left them on.

[lownote]

I started in this hobby as a TOTAL novice after we inherited some LGB starter sets. First we had a small loop with a passing siding, conventional DC. Then to make it easier to run multiple locos I added Radio control via aristo's now-discontinued 75 mhz TE--conventional DC, but each loco had a decoder in it. Then I decided sound was good, so I started running QSI decoders using Airwire throttles--DC on the track, DCC commands sent over the air. Finally I ended up buying the same NCE setup greg uses--DCC signals over the rails--and mostly QSI decoders. I love it--it works really well and has lots of great features, and adding new remote controlled locos is cheap. If you get beyond around 6 locos DCC gets to be cheaper. At some point I plan to add a reversing loop, all the mroe reason for DCC. But as Greg said if you stay small DCC is not cost effective

 

I was never interested in battery for many reasons including the fact that we live in a small semi-urban house and the trains are stored ready to run in a car barn/storage yard. Batteries just seemed like a pain in the neck, and track cleaning for me has been little more than running a track cleaning car around now and then

 

 

[the North East Rail Modeler]

I can tell you right now that, with the brass track, it would be an advantage to have battery powered remote control for the locomotive. I don't have a garden railroad myself, but I have long been an indoor model railroader (HO scale) and have used brass track frequently and have found these problems:
1. Brass track will oxidise within a few years (indoors) and the corrosion is better as an electric insulator, blocking power from the track and preventing it from getting to the locomotive. I will assume that this problem is accelerated and magnified by being outdoors.

2. Brass is not always the best choice because it seems to conduct more heat (at least from what I have noticed) and will be more likely to be affected by the Texas weather. In the 20 F temprature, the track may contract, breaking electrical contact. Likewise, the 100 F weather will cause the track to expand, not only causing contact problems in the curve, but also, over time, pushing the track out of position. While this may not be a problem ( or at least a major problem) it is still worth considering.

Remember: any problems with track indoors (corrosion, expansion, etc.) will most likely be magnified out side.

[lownote]

I have a lot of brass track outside and use dcc, and dirty track and corrosion are just not that big a problem. I just run a track cleaning car around before a session and then sometimes during a session. That's pretty much it. Nearly all the joints on my track have clamps on them.

[ttrigg]

I have just over 600 feet of brass track (LGB) in the dirt for just over 7 years.  The corrosion of brass is not that bad, I use a pole sander every month or so with either a scotchbrite pad or 800 grit sandpaper.  It takes me about 5~6 minutes to clean the rails for smooth operation.  I use both soldered joints and rail clamps and have no problems what so ever with conductivity, and I’m an analog dinosaur.  I have a desk (covered box) with transformer, throttle, switches to control lighting on the layout, turnouts, and block power switching.  I spend way more time cleaning up after the wildlife and mother nature than I do cleaning track.  Dogs like to kick stones onto the track, chickens like to scratch in the mulch, burying the rails, and the trees love to deposit leaves and stems in the right of way.  Long story short: for every minute I spend cleaning the rails, I probably spend 8 minutes cleaning everything else.  As far as expansion/contraction, a few well placed sweeping cures take care of all problems, as the rails float on a gravel bed.  The only batteries on my layout are the ones in solar light panels for houses and such.  The only remote control anywhere near the RR is the button the wife pushes to ring the “door bell” to call me inside the house.

You need to remember, the actucal composition of brass rails indoors is much different thn the composition of outdoor brass rails.