High Power Throttles

[dan jones]

I like to run long trains (20 passenger cars, 40 freight cars) pulled with ABBA head-end power. This requires about 18A to just start up, no lights in the cars(passenger). I have a Bridgeworks (sp) power supply right now, and it is just fine, but would like to automate my railroad without having to put controls in the engines. I haven't seen any throttles for DCC or anything else that will handle my needs.

Ideally, a throttle per block would be great. 

 

Any suggestions? I am willing to purchase a solution, or build it, given instructions.

Thanks, Dan Jones

 

[Greg Elmassian]

My first suggestion is that you need ot do some investigation. 18 amps is pretty darn high for startup if it's just the locos only.

I only run about 8 USAT passenger cars, but I do run 45-50 car freights, and up a 3.4% grade. I do not pull over about 7 amps most times, never over 10.

It's possible you have a problem... since you indicate ABBA, then you either have Aristo FA/FB or LGB F7 or USAT F3 or PA.

Let's start there. I have all but the Aristo FA units myself, and experience with all. What are you running, and have you checked the current draw on each loco under load to see if one loco has a problem?

 

Regards, Greg 

[dan jones]

Sorry,

That was 18A with 18 lit (2 unlit) passenger cars. I have USATrains PA1-PA2 ABBA with 8 motors. I'm in the process of removing one motor from each unit, that will help some. Plus, that was with wheel slip, with traction tires. Each unit is very close to all of the others in current draw, 4+ amps at wheel slip.

[EMPIRE II LINE]

dan jones

Sorry,

That was 18A with 18 lit (2 unlit) passenger cars. I have USATrains PA1-PA2 ABBA with 8 motors. I'm in the process of removing one motor from each unit, that will help some. Plus, that was with wheel slip, with traction tires. Each unit is very close to all of the others in current draw, 4+ amps at wheel slip.

 

Howdy Dan,

I too run as many as 18 of the USA streamline 32" long passenger cars all lighted with an ABBA consist, sometimes ABBBA, of the F-3 engines. FIRST OFF.... AND I DO EMPHASIZE THIS....DO NOT REMOVE MOTORS.....you will regret that move.... I do believe......been there..... done that....no good... 

I use the TRD-25 Bridgewerks units on my line with grades maybe 2 to 3 precent, that consist pulls upwards of 24 amps, at about 22 to 24 volts, I have already cooked half of the rectifier bridge in one of the TRD units, and had to send it in for repair, they even installed an extra cooling fan in it.....I also have a 12" fan blowing on it to help keep it's cool.

Lousy power sucking crappy USA motor blocks is the main problem, always has been....but I do like the F-3's better than the PA's and the ARISTO FA-2's looks.

I do wish that Aristo would make the E-7 series engines....as I am not into wanting to bash a set of the current E-8/9 verions to get a 500 roster numbered series of the original Empire Builder/Great Northern engines.

My plan.... is to re-design the lighting panels in the cars using power regulator circuitry and wide angle LED lighting...also all lights in the engines, as well, to LED's, all to be done after expansion of my train room and the addition of proper work bench areas, so's I can leave them in pieces while testing various circuitry designs. Those cars are a pain to disassemble and that too will require a new tool design, to be made, for easier removal of the floor panel

Doing away with the power hungry incandescant lighting will help alot on high amperage demand.

The Aristo and LGB engines are much better for the use of power, but they don't match well with the more prototypical length USA passenger cars......I've thought of trying to redesign the F-3's, using the more efficient Aristo motor blocks in the future....... maybe???

And Greg,

I really don't know what else to do myself to alleviate the high power consumption of USA motor blocks in their engines....I don't choose to go battery, because I at times let everything set for a month or even months in the hot summer here. And I feel it's easier for me with all stainless track too.

The lighting changes should help alot, so I've heard....what have you experimented with yourself???  

Byron

[Greg Elmassian]

 I'm retrofitting my USAT and Aristo passenger cars to leds. On this page:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/rolling-stock-mods-aamp-tips-mainmenu-33/aristo-rolling-stock-mainmenu-85/heavyweights-mainmenu-90/hw-lighting

I discuss lighting, and I have a link to a nice place to buy LED strip lighting, that is low profile, low current, self-adhesive and not that expensive.

The low profile and wide dispersion makes the lighting even and not show the lights themselves through the windows. 1 meter is 600 ma with 30 leds at 12 volts. I cut the strip in two (you can cut it every 2 or 3 inches) and wire the 2 strips in series and run from 24 volts, this gives plenty of light and then 300 ma per car. I've measured USAT cars at .7 to 1.5 amps per cars. This would make a big difference. Depending on the voltage, you might be able to use less and put it in 3 strips on series and further reduce the current draw. In my testing, 9 volts made them plenty bright.

Regards, Greg

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Greg Elmassian

 I'm retrofitting my USAT and Aristo passenger cars to leds. On this page:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/rolling-stock-mods-aamp-tips-mainmenu-33/aristo-rolling-stock-mainmenu-85/heavyweights-mainmenu-90/hw-lighting

I discuss lighting, and I have a link to a nice place to buy LED strip lighting, that is low profile, low current, self-adhesive and not that expensive.

The low profile and wide dispersion makes the lighting even and not show the lights themselves through the windows. 1 meter is 600 ma with 30 leds at 12 volts. I cut the strip in two (you can cut it every 2 or 3 inches) and wire the 2 strips in series and run from 24 volts, this gives plenty of light and then 300 ma per car. I've measured USAT cars at .7 to 1.5 amps per cars. This would make a big difference. Depending on the voltage, you might be able to use less and put it in 3 strips on series and further reduce the current draw. In my testing, 9 volts made them plenty bright.

Regards, Greg

 

I do appriciate all of the information you provide here Greg....

Have you as yet had the displeasure of disassembling a USA streamliner ??

That is why I am going to design a special tool for spreading the bodies apart so's the floor panel can be slid out much easier, rather than with a 10lb hammer and piece of 2 by 4....BAM_BAM_BAM....So I've been told.....very tight fit....no clearance what so ever, not loose enough to slide out easily, like the old "O" Scale Lionel streamline passenger cars were....

I have done away with all of my former 14 Aristo UP streamliner cars and a 5 car Southern Crescent heavyweight set, and an 8 car Pennsy heavyweight set I had.

I now only have a 5/6 car set of 1st run LGB Santa Fe streamliners and LGB original interior kits to go into them, 28 GN USA streamliners, 11 NP USA streamliners and, 8 Amtrak USA streamliners, also a 5 carset of MTH NYC streamliners....that is my passenger roster for now... 

I got more questions about DCC too....and you say you use DCS, as well as Aristo TE, You wanna talk a bit, one on one, about some of this, if so say when and I'll E-mail you directly...

Thanx, Byron

[Greg Elmassian]

Sure Byron, email me your phone number privately, I have free minutes. [e-mail] ...

And yes, I have pulled several USAT streamliners apart, you have not lived until you have done the observation car! Make sure you don't have any sharp objects or loved ones near by ha ha!

I spend a lot of time yanking out pieces of hot glue first, that helped a lot.

The "Great Big Trains" guy who had a ball bearing kit for the USAT with power pickup has disappeared, drat, that was another thing I want to do, get rid of the carbon brushes. Luckily, I archived his instructions, so maybe I can do what he did myself...

Regards, Greg