I am glad you got them sorted out.
Aristocraft has repaired and recently returned all three of my GP-40's to me. Had a small window of opportunity with the weather here in the Northeast and was able to run each one for approx an hour. They all seemed to run GREAT! Thanks to Aristocraft, both Lewis Polk and Navin, for their timely response on the repairs of my engines and to everyone who provided replies to this forum.
Regards,
tgr29
1/28/10
I did say that a circuit will draw only the amperage needed to run. But OK I said the power-pack problem was at half amperage. However, it was at lesser amperage too. In fact it never put out full 18 volts unless it was at 0 amps. then The voltage dropped off dramatically with just one Aristocraft Mallet running without smoke. Forget running MU locomotives. It would run 0-4-0's and 4-6-2 Pacific's at prototype speed without smoke but turn the smoke on and it was done. when I measured it with an 0-4-0 the voltage output was 9 volts before going through the pulse width controller. The loco seemed to run fine drawing 1.5A but the voltage just wasn't there.
I don't have any theories but I want to make sure you don't go on a wild goose chase thinking you have Three bad locomotives when you have one bad something else. Who knows maybe you do have bad motors but maybe you have some other issue.
Glenn
A DC motor by design only draws enough current to match the load. If these motors draw excessive current (.4 amps) while removed from the gear box then the problem is in the motor. You've said the armature rotates freely so the bearings are probably O.K. That leaves the armature windings, commutator, field magnets, or brush alignment. And if there is a history of this type of problem in many motors then there is probably a manufacturing glitch in the motors.
Walt
The trains he is describing should not be pulling anywhere near 10 amps. The loco should never run over about 2 amps with a heavy load, and under 2 amps unloaded. Lit passenger cars can draw about .7 amps each.
Back to the problem.
More people have reported motor issues to me personally. The symptoms are the motors drawing more current and running more slowly.
Again I have a theory, but Aristo is replacing motors. Many GP40's have wheels where the plating wears off very quickly. Aristo is likewise replacing wheels that exhibit these problems.
Regards, Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
You said you were using an MRC 10 amp power pack Is that really putting out voltage to a full 10 amps??? I had issues with a 10 amp pack dropping voltage at half amperage until I was down to 9 volts at 8 amps. Just a thought....
of course it will only draw the required amperage but check that the voltage doesn't drop off.
Regards, Glenn
There is new and more substantial data of the GP-40 on the MLS site. Aristo has also not denied that some problems exist.
Try reading this thread which is very informative, and full of factual data: http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/17/aft/114104/afv/topic/afpgj/4/Default.aspx
There's more information on this coming, and hopefully an investigation as to the exact failure mode of the motors.
Just a comment, from my experience stripped gears in the "prime mover" style gearbox (all modern diesels) is very rare in that it is not usually the cause.
Often something else is wrong and causes pressure that strips the gear.
Electrical pickup or other wiring can cut the power to one truck and the other truck is overloaded and destroys gears.
The screws can back out or be pulled out that secure the two axle halves to the main worm gear, and that will lock things up and strip the gear.
Other causes of binding have been seen.
Aristo locos are notoriously undergauge, and going through a switch can spread the axles and cause one of the above problems.
Electrical wiring issues are the most common problem in Aristo locos, and this can cause the other problem. Not all the electrical system is tested at the factory, for example, the MU connector.
Just some info and background.
i purchased 2 cotton belt gp-40s when they first came out and the gears striped in about 1 hour pulling only eight cars. i pulled the dead aristo locos and the cars back to base with 1 usa trains gp-38 . i sent them back and have been waiting since december to get them back. there is a problem with the gp-40. i have aprox. 25 sd-45s and have had a problem with only 1. aristo makes a great product and they will make it right. they are waiting for parts and there hands are tied because of the economy or should i say obonomy.
Thanks to SFC Gadget for all of the electrical advice.
I agree with Greg's comments that the heavier wiring is an improvement but isn't the root cause of the problem.
I changed my wiring to 12 gauge and purchased a new USA GP38-2 engine (no sound) which arrived on Wed., 9/30. It 's been running great!
My (3) GP-40's are still in Aristo's Repair Center in New Jersey. I will definitely post the results once the repairs are made. Hopefully I will receive all (3) repaired units before the snow falls here in New England.
Thanks again.
I agree with heavier wire, etc. This is all good stuff, but not what caused the problem.
I really want to hear the resolution. My friend Ted is waiting for his GP40 motor blocks to be returned. We will see if this is a case of random (but not so rare) failure, or maybe there is a problem in all GP40 motors.
Keep us informed please!
I can't speak about the specific engines, but as far as power, wiring and trackwork goes, with 150ft of track I'd run with 14 gauge wire and a power bus with seperate wires to each block or a feeder every 20ft or so. Long runs of track will cause a very big drop in power the farther the engine is away from the power source. Also, 10 amps is what I would consider good for that amount of track specially if you double head and have a sound system installed in each engine. One other thing is to use an electrical conductive paste, such as from LGB, in the rail joiners if you don't use clamps or solder. I tend to look at it as "What can I do to over build the electrics so problems don't arise over time". At 57 years old, I'd rather run the trains than crawl around looking for electrical gremlins.
There will be a "vignette" on my site in the not too distant future with a lot of details and pictures and description of all the investigation and measurements made to isolate the problem to the motors themselves.
I already have 46 pictures from my friend Ted who this happened to. I do not want to say yet that this is a problem with all GP40's but your experience is congruent with his.
Greg - thanks so much for your input.
This now makes sense as I purchased my first GP-40 in Nov 2008. Began running it in the Spring of 2009 and it ran for 5 mths. until the wheel broke. Based on the suggestions of running 12 or 14 gauge from the MRC power to the track should address one of the issues.
That now leaves the other two GP-40's that I just purchased this year. They both seem to be experiencing a motor issue. I thought it was odd to receive two GP-40's within a short period of time that had major problems especially when they were purchased from different hobby shops. Something just didn't add up. Aristo repair center already confirmed the motor is the problem with one of them.
Out of the chute the GP40s seemed to only have one problem, couplers were weak and would open on tension and let the cars go.
Aristo took a long time to sell them out, apparently not as popular as they thought they would be.
Now, several of my friends having problems, excessive motor current, and it's not the drivetrain, you can remove the motor and with nothing connected to it other than power, draws excessive current.
Shaft turns easily.
Check your current draw... I'm guessing now bad batch of motors, but need more data from more people.
put the loco on it's back and measure the current draw... should be very low. The locos exhibiting this problem would draw .4 amp with the motor removed running free, would run over 2.5 amps PER motor just moving the motor block on a track..
Thank you. Appreciate all of the responses.
I too used 18ga wire for a short time. During the design stage I was putting track down on the 22’x44’ concrete patio to see what I liked. Of course I was also digging the Koi pond that would eventually be the center of my RR. I saw that two engines on the track would seriously slow down. Re-wired the “test track” with 12ga and all was well, so I stayed with 12ga when everything went into the dirt.
Tom Trigg
Brian, thanks for your input. The paperwork that came with my MRC 10 Amp recommended using only 16 or 18 gauge for connecting it to the track. That's why I used the 18 gauge. I will try either the 12 or 14 gauge as recommended by both you and Paul in the earlier post. Thanks for the bulletin link at Aristo-craft and I will post it also on their forum.
Ditto on the lightweight wire. Bachmann 10 wheeler - one small motor, GP-40 - 2 big motors!
I would use 14 ga. at a minimum.
I do remember reading about an issue of the motors twisting out of their mounts when the GP-40 first came out. It was addressed in later runs and I think was easily fixed with a couple of zip ties. I would sign up and ask over at the Aristo forum - http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulletinforums/index.php
-Brian
Paul, thanks for your comments. All three engines were purchased from hobby store websites. Two were purchased from Wholesaletrains.com (Santa Fe & Rio Grande). The third, Union Pacific, was purchased from Ridge Road Station's website. I agree, it's hard to believe all three would have problems.
I am not an electrical genius, but 18 guage wire to the track seems a bit lite to me. I have 12 guage to my two tracks, and everything runs strong.
It is hard to believe that all three engines would have a problem, Where did you buy them?
Paul
Purchased 3 different Aristo-craft GP-40 engines and having problems with all 3. I installed my first garden railroad layout in the Spring of 2009 using 150 ft. of Aristo-craft brass track, 8 ft. dia. Curves, 18 gauge wire approx. 40 ft. to an MRC 10 amp G power. Layout has slight inclines and I use an Aristo-craft track cleaner. Have had success running a Bachmann 4-6-0 locomotive on this layout with no issues. Here's the issues with the GP-40's:
1st – Santa Fe – ran okay with lights (no sound) and no more than 5 cars. Installed sound and still ran okay for 5 mths. pulling 5 to 6 cars max including caboose. Started running it with no lights during daylight hours and seemed to run better so ran lights only at night. Then rear wheel broke in August.
2nd – Rio Grande – right out of the box it ran sluggish with not much power with only lights (no sound). It could not pull any cars. Installed sound and still ran sluggish, not much power, and could not pull any cars.
3rd – Union Pacific – received train on Fri., 9/25, and ran fine out of the box (no lights and no sound) for less than 1 day. Running time approx. 3 hours. It stopped running on Sat., 9/26 with horrific grinding sounds of stripping gears.
Santa Fe & Rio Grande currently at Aristo-craft Repair Center. Santa Fe needs the rear wheel fixed. Tech at center says the Rio Grande needs a new motor and waiting on one from China. Union Pacific will also need to be sent to Repair Center tomorrow.
Has anyone else had problems with Aristo-craft GP-40 engines?
Has anyone else experienced any of these issues?
Does anyone see issues or problems with my current set-up?
They haven’t even run one season in the Northeast and it’s very frustrating to own 3 engines and all of them are in need of repair.
Any suggestions or comments from veterans in this hobby would greatly be appreciated.
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