That's obviously very good advice. But it seems to me that a good safeguard against "ground leakage" current would be to have any underground and outdoor wiring fed by a GFCI (ground fault current interrupter) outlet or GFCI breaker. These devices are designed to trip when they sense a current greater than 7 ma (7 thousandths of an amp) between the "hot" wire and ground. This assumes that the supply's ground circuit is properly installed and maintained.
BTW - if I've done the math right, a ground leak of 7 ma would cost you about 75 cents a YEAR at 10 cents per kilowatt hour.
Walt
Capt Bob JohnsonI've had several electricians tell me that that direct burial underground feeder wire sooner or later leaks electricity to the ground, thus causing you to pay for electric you don't use!
I've had several electricians tell me that that direct burial underground feeder wire sooner or later leaks electricity to the ground, thus causing you to pay for electric you don't use!
Note to all.
I just spotted this thread thanks to the Garden Railways Newsletter and thought that I would put in my worth re. the electrical issue.
Here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, we are having a real problem with stray voltage coming from what are called "Hand Holes". These are like a mini "Manhole" but located usually in the sidewalk near light standards and are about 10" across and about the same depth. The connections for the lights have apparently corroded over the years due to what appears to be poor insulation practices in the past. (the insulation is breaking down?) This past winter, (08/09) a number of people and dogs have received electrical shocks of varying severity from stepping on the covers and at least 2 dogs have died from the shock.
Toronto Hydro has put all their repair crews that are not on Emergency Service into checking ALL the Hand Holes and repairing all the connections and re-insulating them with modern connectors filled with waterproof sealant in them. When complete, the cover is painted bright red to signify that repairs have been made. It is estimated that there are about 15,000 of these to be checked and repaired and the estimated cost will be approximately $15 million.
Never assume that just because you have done what the Minimum Code requires that all will be OK. As Mike Holmes has proven numerous times on his "Holmes on Homes" television renovation show, MINIMUM CODE SUCKS. Any time that you install or make any changes to any electrical lines you should have it inspected by your local Utility Inspector for your own and your families safety. As a retired Serviceman, Quality Acceptance Supervisor and Field Service Supervisor for 41+ years with The Consumers Gas Company of Toronto, I have turned off MANY Gas Meters because the home-owner, an unlicensed installer and occasionally a licensed installer installed something that was either unsafe or did not fully meet the minimum GAS CODE or was potentially fatal. Remember, the inspector is not there to cause you grief and aggravation, he is there to make sure that you are safe.
Blue Flamer.
I'm not sure about what the electricians are trying to say; "leaks electricity". I'm going to assume, I know that is dangerous, that we are dealing with a 110/120 volt 15 or 20 amp lighting circut from your house panel. (This would be the same thing as coming off an outdoor recepticle) The insulation for cable that is rated for direct burial will last for many, many, many years. For this cable to "energize" the ground, something would have to strip the insulation off the cable exposing bare wire. Such as hitting it with a shovel or a "critter" chewing on it. In addition, the circut that it is on, would have to be NOT GFCI protected. Everywhere in the country requires any outside circut to be GFCI protected for this very reason.
If you are going to be buring this type cable in your garden, I would recommend putting it in conduit and bury it no less than 12" to protect it from gardening activities. Unless you are planning on using powered equipment; tiller, power post hole digger or any post hole digger for that matter, PVC conduit will be alright. Make sure it is rated for electrical use and not what you usually see used for water. Yes there is a difference other than price! If you're going to use power equipment in the garden, then use metalic conduit. Of course, if you use conduit you will not have to use direct burial rated cable. That could lead to another problem we have outdoors. Cable that is exposed to sunlight and not UV rated. This occurs when the cable comes up out of the ground. It can be easily solved by connecting the conduit to the Junction or Recepticle box.
If you have any questions, contact your local Building Official or Building Inspector. They like answering questions before it becomes an issue! Sorry, I didn't mean for my first response to be long winded.
CBO Steve, SE Virginia
Neiler I really like this idea. How deep do the deadheads go back into the hill? Had you considered notching them like a log cribbing? Neiler
I really like this idea. How deep do the deadheads go back into the hill? Had you considered notching them like a log cribbing?
Neiler
The cribbing goes to about the track and down a few inches. Im thinking about trying out logs for my next set. I have a few spots for more cribbing. Might try it on those spots
Or your local food store I got these for Five Buck's each ( x4 ) on 22Dec07, just in time for Cookies and Trains.
Dave
Ps they lasted till the end of aug then became root bound because I didn't plant them DUUUUH.
The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.
Hint: if you wait untill Jan. or Feb. Homecrapo or Lowes sells the one with red bows "christmass theme" CHEEP!
smcgill Picture an Dwarf Alberta Spruce or a Hornoki Cyprus Just in front of the switch!!
Picture an Dwarf Alberta Spruce or a Hornoki Cyprus Just in front of the switch!!
Good idea I like it. Im thinking of putting in a line of alberta spruces all along the wall. Once Lowes have their spruces out in spring going to pick up a bunch more.
Capt Bob Johnson I've had several electricians tell me that that direct burial underground feeder wire sooner or later leaks electricity to the ground, thus causing you to pay for electric you don't use!
Don't walk on the ground bare foot, or neal.....etc.... or become Lord Raiden
Toad
SNOWSHOE It’s completely safe.
Until the gardener (me) attempts to dig a hole using a post hole digger to plant a tree. That was a "code approved direct bury 220 volt cable" running to the hot tub. Picked my hind end up from the other side of the patio. Next day I had the electrician back at the house to dig up the wires he buried and encase them in pipe. At my house all wires are in pipe, 240 Volt AC to 12 volt DC.
Tom Trigg
SNOWSHOE I used that direct burry electric wire that requires no PVS or pipes (i forget the name of it but had my father help with the that he was in cunstruction for years. Its completly safe.
I used that direct burry electric wire that requires no PVS or pipes (i forget the name of it but had my father help with the that he was in cunstruction for years. Its completly safe.
Of coarse I do not like the type of wire and rather use piping and slime to install.
Was shocked by this type of wire and will never use this wire.
Thanks The on off switch box is just running from the throttle to the on/off box. The electric plug box, I used that direct burry electric wire that requires no PVS or pipes (i forget the name of it but had my father help with the that he was in cunstruction for years. Its completly safe. A little more expensive but makes life easier. The throttle to the power pack in the house is the wire used for outdoor lighting.
SNOWSHOE
Shawn
I have to agree with Tadpole about the code violation. 110 volt wiring should be in PVC for protection. The low voltage to rails, turnouts, etc. need not be in PVC, but it helps.
I built my retaining walls using redwood fence slats.
When I built mine, I used TBII and a brad gun. In mine I built in "support anchors", a slice of the redwood that is burried under the soil behind the wall. I treated everything with a copper based preservitive. The retaining walls have been in the ground for almost four years and no sign of rot yet. I had to move one of the wall earlier this year to make room for the hotel and everything was good then.
Other than the code violation, I'll say it is looking very good.
dwbeckett Look's Good, I have a 16 inch tall section on the ridge line that would look good on. What did you use, and how did you get it together glue, brad's, or what. Dave
Look's Good, I have a 16 inch tall section on the ridge line that would look good on. What did you use, and how did you get it together glue, brad's, or what.
I just use the poplar tree wood from Lowes. They sell small sections of different sizes in the lumber section. It works great and is cheap. I just cut them to size with a table saw.
This time I used tite bond wood glue. To secure it I used tite bond wood glue. I use to use small nails but that got to be a pain, the wood would crack or just as I was hammering the final nails the whole structure would bust up. Glue works wonders and holds up very well. I know the wood I use is not the best for outdoors but with a lot of Thomas water seal it does the trick and protects the wood.
Uh huh....Code violation, using a cell phone as power!
BTW looking good
I had a small section of my line that needed some erosion control. With some recent rains and snows the balast was starting to wash away some. This a project of have been wanting to do for some time but had other things to get done on the layout. I could have used some rock. Would have been the easy way out but I decided that to get more detail I would build some cribbing. I just finshed it today and planted some moss around and ontop. Looks prety good.
I also finally blocked off power to my siding. Now I can control the electric with the flick of a switch. This siding just goes out to the mine
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