Mixing 1:20.3 and 1:22.5?

[Anonymous]

I'm new to large scale and was wondering whether anybody mixes 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 rolling stock. Does the 10% difference matter? Does a mixed scale equipment train look fine when rolling down the rails? How about when the cars are sitting on a display shelf?

Thanks for your comments,
-Paul

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul
Easy to make a nice static on the shelf display.
However when it comes to the trains on the layout I would sugest keeping all your trains and accesories the same scale there will be certan things that will stick out like a sore thumb as being wrong and they will annoy the crap out of you untill you fix them.
Others may not notice but you will and will not be satisfied untill you sort it out.
All your stock needs to be the same scaie and to the same standard of detail as having
a reasonable level of detail stock mixed with master crafted stock looks just as wrong
its all a balancing act for a consistent scene.
regards john

[vsmith]

Hello Paul,

Being new to large scale you shouldnt worry too much about mixing scales unless you are building a prototype based layout. 1/20.3 and 1/22.5 are close enough I seriously doubt you ever notice the difference, I would go ahead and mix. I've never been annoyed by the two next to each other, but then i dont crawl over my cars with a scale looking for discrepencies.

BE AWARE that 1/20.3 trains WILL NOT WORK on a layout built to LGB 1/22.5 clearences, 1/20.3 requires greater clearences at tunnels and cuts and if you are planning to go 1/20.3 you will have to plan for it before you build any tunnels or cuts. Ask any owner of Bachmanns Big Diesel that hit tunnels portals across the country.LOL.

I only half believe that ANYTHING in large scale is truely the scale its claimed to be.

Dont beleive me? try sticking a 1/20.3 engineer figure into Bachmanns 1/20.3 scale 2-8-0 Connie or the big diesel, looks good right? now stick that same figure into B-manns supposedly 1/20.3 scale 2-6-0 Indy, like putting King Kong into a Honda Civic! So even the manufactures cant get it right. plus EVERY freight and passenger car from Bachmann is 1/22.5 no matter what the box says.

Another thing to consider is that the only manufacturers of "SCALE" 1/20.3 are Accucraft, Hartford, and a couple of other small craft manufaturers, so except to pay around $100 to $300 for EACH freight car, thats a budget buster for most people. and NO ONE I know makes affordable 1/20.3 passenger cars, so you maybe scratchbuilding those.

I would just run your 1/20.3 engines with 1/22.5 frieght and passanger cars and not worry about it. Hopefully Bachmann will live up to its promise of commiting to 1/20.3 and UPGRADE their cars to 1/20.3. Until then the 1/22.5 cars are OK

[s51flyer]

Paul, I agree with Vic. My dad runs a garden railway and he mixes everything from 1:20 to 1:29. His grandkids don't care - they just love the smoke and chuff, chuff... If you're into prototype, there's even examples were the DR&W mixed narrow and standard gauge in the same consist. Of course, they used idler cars in-between and needed to do this on dual trackwork, but the prototype examples exist.

I think the "mix" issue (IMHO) is only relevant if you plan to model prtotypical operation and the prototype used standard gauge exclusively. I suppose at that point the different scale would be noticable and would probably bug ya. It would bug me. [8D]

Bob...

[Anonymous]

if someone is really that obsessed about not mixing scales then they should move out of G scale entirely.[2c]

[vsmith]

I dont think PaulAllen is hyperventilating over this issue, but it is a fair question from a begineer in Large Scale. I think we all asked ourselves this question when we started. I think JohnBusby's reply makes sense only if you are planning on running a lot of prototype based equipment.

For example if you had an Accucraft K-27 with a couple of scale 1/20.3 Hartford cars and an Accucraft D&RG 1/20.3 long caboose, then sticking a LGB boxcar into that mix might look out of whack. I dont know, guess that depends on how picky you are about scale.

Some people will just run what ever they want and not give a hoot. After all its YOUR RAILROAD and you can run whatever you want! Your F3's need helper service, well, just call up the 2-8-0 Connie! It'll get 'em over that hill....

[bman36]

Hey all,
To me it is not that big a deal either. Again if your choice is to go prototypical then pay attention to scale. As Vic said though, IT WILL NOT ALWAYS TURN OUT THAT WAY. I too have experienced the "Exactly what scale did the box say?" issue myself. I say this because the piece in question just did'nt look right. Just like runnin' trains and havin' fun. The rest of my life is serious enough to keep me "playing" with trains. Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Hi
Well I am surprised given what is in Garden Railway Magazine where it is stressed that consistency of scale is important to the good overall apearance of the railway.
My coments are based on my Awfull looking Top Link Express
where I had to mix brand and scale to get enough passanger coaches to make up a convincing train the handrails is the most glaring deficiency in the train to the point of
me wonering why I spent the money and didn't look earlier at scratchbuilding
which I will be doing as that looks to be the only way to get the consistency needed
Because the manufacturers canot make up their mind on a set standard and scale like the smaller scales did years ago.
As for tunnels beware the visitor with a large locomotive make a cavern with the tunnel mouths removable or make quite sure all visitors know your loading gauge.
I draw you to the last comment I made which is that it is consistency that was inportant
and you don't get that by mixing scales. and my pet hate seeing a train of narrow gauge stock with a std gauge wagon in the middle of it I don't care that both are the same size it is not consistent and obviosly wrong.
But hey your railways do what you please
But dont hang me for voicing an opinion that took 39 years to form and by the way I came from scales where things are consistent and there are set standards that the manufactures follow or they dont sell anything. and dont understand why this is not the case in the large scales
regards john

[bman36]

Hi John,
Don't want you left with the feeling of being "hung" here. The whole reason I no longer go on any other forums is "healing" was in order. Too many bullit holes. The problem with forums is that we aren't face to face. A lot of times one persons "jesting" is taken as an insult by another. We cannot see the emotion intended in our words. I will be the first to apologize if anything I posted felt like a jab in your side. Was never my intention. Having a backround in building "Streetrods" I have taken major insults from "Purists" who claim I destroyed a car. I have a 1940 Chev Coupe that is Charcoal Grey and Hot Pink. Makes restorers sick. All I ever tell them is I had to "Fix" what Chevy messed up. At least now I can DRIVE my car thousands of miles without my wife glued to the oil pressure gauge. No Babbitt Bearings here! Anyhow...from all that I changed my way of thinking to "I don't care if you don't like how I do it". Yes I find the lack of standards with Large Scale frustrating also. Never know what I am getting unless I already own one of those. It's my prayer we here on this forum never become like what I have seen elsewhere. We should never be afraid to say what we like or what our opinion is for fear of a bashing. Having said that everyone of us needs to think before we post. It is so easy to send the wrong message here. John, 39 years is a lot of experience and wisdom we all welcome. Glad to have you here. Keep postin' eh. Remember guys: For every mile of road ,there's two miles of ditch! The ride is smoother on the pavement. Later eh...Brian.

[vsmith]

John

No harm intended, in fact I was agreeing with you, but I wanted to let Paul know in advance that going prototypical or to exact 1/20.3 scale will be costly. I agree with you that mixing narrow gauge and standard gauge looks really bad, but some do it and are happy with it.

Some on this forum will argue that its better to a very few, very good cars, and one very very good engine than a slew of the cheaper smaller and less detailed frieght cars. I wont disagree with that but the modeller has to understand that when they start. I would hate to see Paul say "I'm going to do only 1/20.3" then find that a single 1/20.3 passenger car is $200 and get discouraged and leave.

To me its better to have a mix of items that are close in scale that they look consistent. As long as all the cars are from narrow gauge prototypes then mixing Bachmann, Hartland, LGB cars behind a 1/20.3 loco looks perfectly fine. Dont throw a NYC streamline coach behind that 2-6-0 Bachmann Indy though ( I doubt if it could even PULL it)

If scale and detail are the overriding importance then patience and saving to accuire those finescale engines and cars and you have the fiscal discipline and patience to wait and acquire your consist slowely, you'll have the best roster around.

If it isnt then, at least to me, as long as your consistent with your consist, all narrow or all standar guage, you'll be fine. The scales are close eneough that only the truely observant will ever notice.

[Anonymous]

Hi
The mention of detail has now come up this is an interesting one as some swear by
if it is on the real one it should be on the model.
Others will say wait a minute we are out side and fiddly bits break I dont think it matters
wether you settle for more or less detail.
Again consistency is the key if you decide less detail is better because you want to play trains rather than repair broken details (note if your line is inside higher detail is more common) then every thing needs to have the same level of detail put a master crafted wagon, in with a train load of sensible amount of detail it has that same effect as the std gauge mixed with narrow, only worse it makes the rest of the train look C###!!.
So no matter what your choice on detail level keep it the same all the way through
even if you have to remove or add details to some wagons or coaches too get that same level of detail throughout.
It is amasing how much you can fool the brain if detail levels are consistent.
A classic is some of the live steam which more often than not is a bit short on the detail side and the rake of basic home made wagons behind it that the builder added a couple of extra details to just to get them to look right and forgot to add a couple of extra details to the locomotive which could have been as simple as adding lamp brackets to the buffer beams and a driver, steamer looks yuk compared to the rest of the train for the want of a couple of exra details.
No mater what you do if you run out side remember fiddly bits break pets may be well behaved normaly but one day they won't be.
I would say rugged construction with a little less of the fiddly bits is the way to go.
if you can afford to replace the smallparts you concider important with more rugged metal parts and get them better secured then do it.
Or wait till it breaks then replace but if its a step replace all the steps of that type on the wagon.
And yes a few well made good quality wagons are better than a load of less well made wagons regardless of wether they are scratch built or made by one of the manufactures
regards John
PS when can we have a forum spell checker?

[Anonymous]

I’ve been thinking and I am new to these forums and to the scale. I would have to say that I would be taken aback by the sight of a narrow gauge piece of rolling stock in the middle of standard gauge train and vice-versa. But the costs and availability of G Scale equipment, as I have come to notice as I hunt for things, might make it difficult to maintain a steady scale.

In a new thread I presented the question that address this issue, what works with what?

If I make the mistake of outfitting a train that is in a narrow gauge what recourse do I have but to run them? In that case I could only swallow the inconstancy by resolving to run trains that are made up of the same scale.

Again, I intend to have fun with this. Who is to say that a narrow gauge boxcar would be retrofitted by a poor short-line into a standard gauge unit. Or, for example, the reverse. The imagination can bridge gaps.

[Anonymous]

Hi,
It don't matter, whatever the scales. If it looks right then it is. If it looks odd then take a look at all that 12" to the foot stuff that we run our trains through and it won't matter that much anyway!
Kim

[Anonymous]

As more small scale modelers enter large scale the issue of scale fidelity will become far more important. So maybe then we will have affordable "scale" models to choose from.
Untill then I mix 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 without hesitation.
The only odd looking locomotive I have is the 1:20.3 Bachmann 2-8-0. It looks way to large when run with 1:22.5 rolling stock. I'm thinking of selling the thing and buy another Climax.

Or maybe I'll sell everything and go into 7/8" scale; only ONE scale here.

OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

As more small scale modelers enter large scale the issue of scale fidelity will become far more important. So maybe then we will have affordable "scale" models to choose from.
Untill then I mix 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 without hesitation.
The only odd looking locomotive I have is the 1:20.3 Bachmann 2-8-0. It looks way to large when run with 1:22.5 rolling stock. I'm thinking of selling the thing and buy another Climax.

Or maybe I'll sell everything and go into 7/8" scale; only ONE scale here.

OLD DAD

I agree, I came over from N scale. I think a good poll might be along the lines of, "From which scale did enter large scale trains?"

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Carrales

Originally posted by OLD DAD

As more small scale modelers enter large scale the issue of scale fidelity will become far more important. So maybe then we will have affordable "scale" models to choose from.
Untill then I mix 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 without hesitation.
I agree, I came over from N scale. I think a good poll might be along the lines of, "From which scale did enter large scale trains?"

Fun idea Capt; why don't you start that poll since you thought of it.

Don't forget that a lot of folks on this forum are new to model railroading in any scale so make sure they have a box to check.

I came to large scale from On2 and before that I was in "N" scale.

Go for it Capt..............OLD DAD

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