Re: I need Your Help

[hoofe116]

Toad,

Thanks for the hedzup. I didn't know about purple paint. I do feel 'no trespassing' signs act as a challenge to kids.

Les

[Anonymous]

Here its still not uncommon to find the "south-o-the-border solution" on masonry walls, namely broken glass cast into morter across the top, just the site of it is deterent enough for most.

Vic,

Very common style fence, seen it 2x now. Once in República de Panamá not a great trip and on SWAT raid.

Toad

[vsmith]

I still say a nice fence would solve 90% of your problem, get a nice iron fence and "enhance" it ala Gomez:

Or just a simple 4' high chain link fence should prove a significant deterance if the person in Q is older and not so nimble. If the guy is still agile then go for a 6 footer and if you want to get tricksy, line the top bar with powdered chalk, anyone coming over will be "marked"

Here its still not uncommon to find the "south-o-the-border solution" on masonry walls, namely broken glass cast into morter across the top, just the site of it is deterent enough for most.

[grandpopswalt]

Les,

I certainly didn't mean to sound dismissive regarding your encounter. But you must admit that most of us would find it full-filling to be able to deal with the many ignorant bullies we encounter in the course of our lives by actually giving them back in spades what they threaten us with. But that needs to remain a fantasy, not an option.

I'm 68 years old but in very good condition. I'm 6'2" tall, weigh 210 pounds, work out daily and would probably acquit myself very well in a fistfight. But I'm not sure how I would do against a habitual brawler though. I wouldn't hesitate to cave in an attacker's skull if I felt I had no other alternative. But I wouldn't get into a pushing match just to prove my manhood. My position is that unless one, or his family, is threatened by eminent harm, resorting to physical violence is counter-productive. This is why we have laws and police and courts.

Again, if you get into it with a jerk and whip him, he'll probably come at you again, only next time he may bash you with a club from behind. And if he gets the best of you, he will feel that his way of dealing with problems is O.K. In either scenario you are likely to come out the loser. However, if the authorities make it clear to him that his behavior isn't acceptable he will most probably back off or go to jail, either way, you win.

Since I don't know the circumstances of the encounter you had I can't comment on what I might or might not have done. However it sounds as though you're very fortunate that you didn't get beaten to a pulp. And no one should ever be put in a position to have to defend himself on his own property.  

My ancestors have worked hard for the last 10,000 years to get me to the point that I don't need to walk around with a club on my shoulder and I like it that way, that's called civilized society. 

Best regards, 

Walt 

 

 

[Anonymous]

Missouri's Purple Paint Statute: A New Way To Protect Your Property From Trespassers
By Deanne Hackman
Research Associate and Adjunct Instructor
Social Science Unit, College of Agriculture, Food, and Natural Resources
University of Missouri - Columbia

"During its 1993 legislative session, the Missouri legislature enacted a new statute pertaining to trespassing. The new law, the Purple Paint Statute (RSMO 569.145), provides yet another way for Missouri landowners to protect their property from trespassers. Landowners can still use "No Trespassing" signs, however the Purple Paint Statute allows landowners to mark trees or posts with purple paint as a warning to would-be trespassers. Just like a "No Trespassing" sign or actual communication to individuals that no trespassing is allowed, the purple paint marks are considered to be adequate notice to the public that no trespassing is allowed on the property.

Missouri's law is similar to one that has been used in Arkansas since 1989. These statutes were enacted to provide landowners with an economical and easy way to keep out unwanted trespassers. The law does not require that property marked with the purple paint also be fenced, thus it is an economical alternative for landowners who do not otherwise need to fence their property. Additionally, it prevents a problem encountered when using "No Trespassing" signs -- purple paint marks can't be taken down, destroyed, or stolen!

Because the Purple Paint Statute is new, many people across the state are not yet aware that the statute exists. Regardless, the statute imputes notice to would-be trespassers. All land marked with purple paint in the manner proscribed by the statute is considered to be adequate notice to the public. It fulfills the same function as a "No Trespassing" sign, a fence, or telling someone not to come onto your property.

Under Missouri's law:

Any owner or lessee of real property can post property with the purple paint marks. Purple paint marks must be placed on either trees or posts (the statute does not specifically allow the option of placing paint marks on buildings). Vertical paint lines must be at least 8 inches long (the statute does not mention a maximum length).
The bottom edge of each paint mark must be between 3 feet and 5 feet off the ground. Paint marks must be readily visible to any person approaching the property.
Purple paint marks cannot be more than 100 ft. apart.
The statute provides that any person trespassing onto property marked by purple paint can be found guilty of a first-degree trespassing charge. Any unauthorized entry onto property marked with the purple paint marks is considered a trespass. First-degree trespassing is a Class B Misdemeanor, with potential punishment of a maximum $500 fine and/or a maximum of 6 months in jail.

Other violations which would subject a trespasser to first-degree trespass are: (1) entering a property posted with "No Trespassing" signs; (2) refusing to leave property once told to do so; and (3) coming onto land fenced against intruders.

Landowners can purchase the purple boundary posting paint at hardware stores across the state. Several paint companies have formulated a latex semi-paste product for the specific purpose of marking property. The paint can be applied in its semi-paste form or sprayed once thinned."

[Anonymous]

I love all the great solutions here.  I will have to remember them.  I would also recommend posting some No Tresspassing signs on the property.  This will help validate any action that you take. 

I can tell you that from previous experience with a bad neighbor, nothing works better than pictures.  There is no way to get out of that evidence. But signs will really finish him off.

Paul  

Paul:

In the state of Missouri, you have to go to the courthouse and pay a small fee to get your property listed as 'no tresspassing'. That makes it legal. Otherwise, not.

I've always wondered if "No Tresspassing" didn't act as a challenge to kids.

Les

Les,

Each state is color coded tresspassing, like all of Texas is purple. No sign needed, paint marking makes it legal. Check to see what paint color in your state and how to apply.

Mine is 8"x4" purple marker.

Toad

[hoofe116]

I love all the great solutions here.  I will have to remember them.  I would also recommend posting some No Tresspassing signs on the property.  This will help validate any action that you take. 

I can tell you that from previous experience with a bad neighbor, nothing works better than pictures.  There is no way to get out of that evidence. But signs will really finish him off.

Paul  

Paul:

In the state of Missouri, you have to go to the courthouse and pay a small fee to get your property listed as 'no tresspassing'. That makes it legal. Otherwise, not.

I've always wondered if "No Tresspassing" didn't act as a challenge to kids.

Les

[hoofe116]

Yeah, the wire fence.....guy killed a woman with pacemaker with normal cattle fence.

Toad

Toad,

You're right on the money about the electric fence deal. There are many people walking around with undiagnosed/undiagnosable malfunctions of the heart's nerves, where an electric shock will cause death.

That's why, if someone ever threatens me with a taser, cop or not, he's going to get shot. Missouri is a concealed-carry state, and I have a bad heart. And I do not ever disrespect or annoy cops. Or fail to do what they want. Heh: my last encounter with one resulted in a bawling out. (He was right). No ticket, though. Halleluhah (or howsumever you spell that).

Tasers are sold as personal defense items--or used to be. People who carry them should try them out on a willing subject, first. (Might cost you a case of beer) but, they'll most likely find their 'tasers' are 'ticklers'. I know of two cases of that.

For my daughter's 21st birthday, I signed over my WW2 Barretta 32. The lady cop doing the paperwork smiled and glowed all over both of us.

Oh, FWIW, my daughter was trained, by me, in the proper use of firearms. In the 'circle of awareness' bit. They aren't toys to threaten with. I believe a guy like you knows that waving a pistol around without the pre-decided intent to shoot somebody dead if necessary is a foolish thing to do.

Les

[GP-9_Man11786]

I know fenicng the whole proterty is out of the question but, how about simply cordoning off the railroad? If you do decide to go the civil court route, I would meet with an lawyer and find out exactly what you will need as far as evidence and just what the law says for your particular case.

[hoofe116]

Spike,

Regardless of how much fun it might be to punch the offender in the nose or to electrocute him, it'll probably get you into as much trouble as him, if not more. 

Walt 

Walt,

I'm sure you recognize I've selectively edited your post. I most assuredly agree with the point re pixes you made, and I have no disagreement with your position.

But. I feel a need to expand upon a point you made that strikes me as dismissive: "Regardless of how much fun it might be to punch the offender in the nose..."

It wasn't fun. It was a tad desperate. I'd just gotten a split eyebrow with the aid of what is called a 'fightin' ring'. A big thing one puts on who thinks a fight might go down, meant to tear a man's face. Moments previous to that, I had a third neighbor (friend of first) buy into the fight and help take the post maul handle away from me, feeling confident the bigger, younger man would then clean my clock. When I threw that punch I had two people to keep an eye on (and only one to do it with) and it just happened I connected better than he had. I was over 50 years old at that time, disabled, and hadn't traded a punch since my young adult days, and I never, ever was a fighter even then. I've been in probably two fights in my life. Counting that one. I am no 'tough guy' and certainly no brawler. I am, however, one of those old-time redneck hillbillies right out of the Ozarks of Missouri, and we don't take to having our wives verbally abused. That's grounds for killing, in the socio-economic strata I grew up in.

The weakness of your position is, you're relying on the courts, the cops, or someone else to do what needs to be done: make that guy not want/able to fool with you again.

It's entirely possible Spike and you are too old to effectively defend yourselves. I'm getting near that point. I'll be the very first to admit wading into a fight isn't easy, unless you're young 'n dumb. But regrettably, sometimes it's the most effective.

Respectfully,

Les

[hoofe116]

I can tell you that from previous experience with a bad neighbor, nothing works better than pictures.  There is no way to get out of that evidence. But signs will really finish him off.

Paul  

Paul,

I politely beg to differ. Some people are either A) too stupid to imagine the consequences, or B) are convinced they can bluff you by verbal + physical threats. (My ex-neighbor).

Never threaten. Warn. Never, ever bluff. Act. But don't be a hair-trigger jerk, either. Be sure you've "gone the extra mile".

Les

[vsmith]

"Good Fences Make For Good Neighbors" Robert Frost

Also being seen on the porch cleaning one of these usually works wonders

[Camaro1967]

I love all the great solutions here.  I will have to remember them.  I would also recommend posting some No Tresspassing signs on the property.  This will help validate any action that you take. 

I can tell you that from previous experience with a bad neighbor, nothing works better than pictures.  There is no way to get out of that evidence. But signs will really finish him off.

Paul  

[Ray Dunakin]

More likely it's just some hateful old farts who think the trains are ugly/annoying/noisy or who knows what, just like the idiots who get bent out of shape 'cause they don't like the color you painted your house or way you trim your trees.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the wire fence.....guy killed a woman with pacemaker with normal cattle fence.

Toad

[grandpopswalt]

Spike,

Regardless of how much fun it might be to punch the offender in the nose or to electrocute him, it'll probably get you into as much trouble as him, if not more. 

I think you need to get proof that it's him (a picture or another reliable eyewitness) that will prove that this person trespassed on your property and did damage. With that kind of proof you can  go to the authorities and ask for protection as well as restitution.

You may even be able to scare them away with a nightime floodlight and a large sign stating "I now have this area under electronic surveillance. Anyone entering here without my permission will be photographed and will then be prosecuted" . 

Walt 

[imrnjr]

Spike --

One thing that hasn't been mentioned  that is pretty cost effective for fencing is an electric fence.  I've utilized them to keep 1000+ pound cattle and 25 pound goats in temporary holding areas and for permanent fences in areas that have had flooding or terrain problems that would make netwire unrealistic. 

A good power unit usually runs about $125, and it's enough to energize a couple of miles or more of wire. and you can get them in solar/battery or 110V.  The wire is either soft aluminum, high tensile steel for more demanding applications or a wire impregnated cloth tape generally utilized for horses or show animals.  The insulators could be put on existing fence or on short plastic or fiberglass posts.   

Personally I'd use 2 wires or tapes minimum (one gound/one hot) set about 1' apart about 10" off the ground.  If your soil is good and the area is generally well watered  it's a possibility you could get by with one wire (hot), but if you don't know for sure.... two works!!  Seperate the posts by about 20 to 40 feet to minimize sag.  Anchor it to a good solid post at each end and put a ratchet style tensioner on both wires and you'll be able to eliminate most of the sag pretty quickly. 

You'll need to put a couple of ground rods  in at the unit and maybe one or two around the property to make sure the ground to the fence is solid... just depends on soils and the general moisture content of the ground itself.

If you use the fiberglass posts you could move it around occasionally which makes it hard to remember where the wires are and hard to see in the dark.  I know 'cause I tripped over one back about 45 years ago trying to acquire some watermelons at midnight!!!! And when you fall on the system.... you can't get off of it!!  While it goes to popping you several times. (hurts like hell!!)

The fence puts out probable 6500-7500 joules of current which will arc to metal, and make every muscle in your body contract  , but there is not any danger of electrocution due to the very low amperages utilized.  I guarantee if you put it up and your vandal hits it, he/she/it, will wake you with the yell he/she/it lets out.  Just have the lights and camera ready when it happens and you'll have the bugger by the 'nads... so to speak for civil and criminal action.

Oh yeah... be sure and turn it off when you go to work on it!  And a regular V-O-M will not work with it since it's a pulsed system. 

Lastly, I'd be sure and check local ordinances that might restrict that type of fencing in your community, but I'd bet if its inside your property line some distance it will be legal.

Good luck

Mark

[hoofe116]

It is so hard for me to understand this....why do others take so much pleasure with causing others so much stress?  Maybe humanity is to far gone.

Er, not to darken your day, but humanity has always been 'too far gone'. This is nothing new and there is nothing to understand.

I ended a neighbor war by busting two ribs plus the guy's nose. Then the dummy's wife called the cops on me. (He'd come to our house and began raising hell with my wife.) Turned out he was then in big trouble with them. They asked me if I wanted to press charges. I said "no." I believe I'd made my point, and I was right. He never bothered us again. I got a split eyebrow, no big deal.

Ever see a nose taped in place with two tongue depressors, plus the 'raccoon look?' Much worse, if he told the truth, he'd have to say, "This older, disabled guy beat me up."

Moral of this post: If you want security, make your motto "Peace through superior firepower." Or somesuch.

Les

[EMPIRE II LINE]

My neighbors are also retired and a bit older than me. They come in and pop up the rails from the ties. They do it several times around my lay out.

 

 

Now this is hard to believe......An old retired fa-t, with nothing better to do....I live in a 600 plus unit mobile home park and yes there are those who have complained, even one ol' lady two doors over had some nice words, but I've never ever had any vandalism problems. That sounds like that neighbor must really have a serious mental issue, I agree with the idea of inviting him over to run them with you and see what happens, who knows..... 

Byron C. 

[Marty Cozad]

We have been lucky, but our last dog Angel did not like strangers.

 our new 8 month old dog loves everyone. We just installed a 1500 wire for a dog radio collar fence to keep him in and area. so far so good. as he gets older he will get more protective.

 

[Anonymous]

retired and a bit older than me.

They have done other things around my yard.

 

NOTE to all this is not KIDS it is a OLD MAN! Reread my edited post from SJ!

I would guess his name is John short for Johnny and his wife will not let him have a signle train.

Toad

[Coogler Rail Line]

It is so hard for me to understand this....why do others take so much pleasure with causing others so much stress?  Maybe humanity is to far gone.

[g. gage]

I have shown your dilemma to my wife. Your last post suggests that the perp may be a lonely old man. She suggests an other track, no pun intended, that maybe inviting him over to run trains with you might solve the problem.

The vandalism you suffered is costly and hard to take, but waging peace may make a friend. Waging war usually escalates and can last a long long time.

Good luck,

Rob

[Dennis Paulson]

This subject is terrible to us all .

If they are underage , the only way to end it , is to get into their mom and dads ,  pocket book , then it will stop .

 

Report it EVERY time to the police , paper work paper work , the pictures will be great , and spend the time taking it to court .

 

A inexpensive additional method , is the Horbor Freight stores , Bunker Hill , wireless alert system . Wireless infrared alert system , battery powered , noisey when it goes off !

These are really inexpensive .

 

Best of luck , they do eventually grow and move on .

 

 

[dougdagrump]

How about paintballs filled with pepper spray ?

[Coogler Rail Line]

Southwest...you are right.  The laws tend to protect the criminals rather than the victims.  Civil charges are your best bet.

[GP-9_Man11786]

You could invest in some of the above-mentioned scarecrow and sprinkle sodium metal pellets on your lawn.

In all seriousness, getting the evidence and calling law enforcment probably rou best bet. You can also use the evidence to take them to small claims court.

[Anonymous]

If you find that repugnant, there's always the option of wiring each leg of a 220v line to the track, with an appropriate switch. Be sure to water the lawn.

Les

Dam Les, your my kinda guy ROFL!!!!!!!!! Yeah WATER that lawn need a good ground!

On the other hand digital camera made for animals.

Or just what you got camera! If you lived where I do they send them to the pen, no joke! Bad thing is there going in so fast none of them dyn quick enought so the pen is over crowed.

If you been looking at Houston news you see a old man shot 2 guys dead cold while stealing from a friends house and the court did not do a thing to him (YEAH) but there sayn civil suit now. You can guess all the details with Quanal X heading up a march and all. This will never be over for him.

 

Toad

[g. gage]

I'm inclined to go with Brian. I live on 2.33 acres, hoping for an undisturbed city lot sized piece of land. It's bordered by Califorina Fish and Game and Tahoe National Forest on two sides. I've had to repair or replace sections of track from deer stepping on and through it and an eight point buck sleeping on my railyard; cars included, a garbage can from bears. Actually people around us have been helpful, telling us what they see.

Anyway all of the above suggestions would work.

Rob