Black Smoke for Locomotives

[GP-9_Man11786]

The question of making modle diesel locomotives produce black smoke has been floating around for some time. I think I may have found a solution. Cintronella oil makes black smoke when burned in tiki torches. However, cintronella is very flamable and there is the danger of it simply igniting  in a smoke unit. O-Guage Railroading cautioned against using paraphin-based lamp oils for this very reason.

My advice for anybody looking for black diesel exhaust is to bench-test this one in a safe environment (ie smoke unit hooked up to a power supply with a fire extinguisher handy). Who knows, even if the smoke isn't black, cintronella does smell nice and keeps bugs away. Hope this helps.

[REI]

Do you think it could work on G scale battery-operated locomotives? It would be cool to have my cap-stacked "coal burner" produce some black smoke even though I like the regular, "white" smoke just fine.

[GP-9_Man11786]

It could work on a battery-powered locomotive similar to those made by New Bright or Echo Toys. However, as I said earlier it should be tested on the bench to make sure the stuff won't ignite instead of vaporize.

[REI]

I have plenty of New Bright engines and some of them have the smoke unit, I'll be sure to be careful when experimenting with it.

Thanks.

[dwbeckett]

Be Happy with the white smoke, when the manufactures come up with BLACK SMOKE I'm sure they will be happy to charge us twice the price....................

Dave

[Southwest Chief]

I've long wanted black smoke coming out of my steam locos, but haven't been brave enough to test anything to see if I can get black smoke.

I've been wondering about adding black food coloring to smoke fluid.  Not sure if this would work or not, and it would likely gum things up pretty quickly.  But it might be worth a test.

I found this:

Liquid black food coloring

But I'm not sure if pigments or any form of tint would even work in smoke generators.  My LGB smoke fluid is a clear blue, but burns white. 

I'm sure if it were possible someone would have developed a product by now.  But perhaps no manufacturer wants to offer the stuff since it would likely stain things and could fill a room with black smoke...probably not the best idea.  They could put all the warning labels in the world not to use it indoors but you know someone would.

[Mike Dorsch CJ&M r.r.]

I've been using cintranella oil in the smoke units of all my locomotives OUTSIDE for years now and they have never started on fire . I have to admit I never thought about that possability . Anyhow I will continue to use it as it is far cheaper than the stuff they sell at the hobby stores and it seems to smoke the same . By the way the smoke color I am sorry to say is WHITE. I use it in MTH , USA and Aristocraft units . If it starts on fire I have a garden hose nearby to put it out . Wouldn't want to use it indoors as you got me thinking about it now . I think it helps with the flying insects too .

[GP-9_Man11786]

The reason I suggested citronella is because it does make black smoke when burned in a lamp. However, smoke generators don't burn it, the vaporize it. In addition the burning wick may very well be giving the cintronella smoke its color. As for citronella guming up the smoke generator, it appears to be fairly thin. That said, I wouldn't try on a seuth smoke unit right away as they are the most suseptable to being gummed up.

[CPT Stryker]

What you all are failing to realize is that there are two distinctly different processes to produce white and black smoke using oil. White smoke is the result of oil vaporizing when it comes in contact with a hot surface. Black smoke is the result of oil being combusted. A smoke generator will always produce white smoke as it only vaporizes the oil.

CPT STRYKER

[REI]

Yes, that's what I've thought all along. A smoke unit will always vaporize oil, thus produce white smoke. Perhaps if the heating coil inside the smoke unit was black or tainted, maybe it would produce black smoke. But I'm not sure. I sometimes use drops of water to clean the smoke unit resevoirs, though it has never damaged the unit, do you think this is a good idea?

[Anonymous]

Well,

Quit talking and test this out! The only way to do it.

Toadster

[REI]

I don't have to and I'm not going to waste my time and money, I already have my answer. Read the above posts and you'll see.

[Anonymous]

I don't have to and I'm not going to waste my time and money, I already have my answer. Read the above posts and you'll see.

If you never waste your time and money you will never know! I never look at it as a waste, but when it comes back up later down the road in 1-2 yrs you can say, Yes it does or No don't do it! Under the heading of experance.

Ole Toad

[REI]

I don't see the need to because it makes sense. The smoke unit will vaporize the oil or cintronella, not burn it. A previous poster explained how he used cintronella with his trains and the smoke kept coming out white, so....

[Anonymous]

Ok, now we need to know what if any will make black smoke. So what could make this effect.

Toad

[REI]

Well, there has never been a black smoke producing smoke unit ever made or known.

[Mike Dorsch CJ&M r.r.]

I'll wait till one of my units is beyond repair and then experiment with the smoke unit . I'm wondering if motor oil would produce black smoke and how long the smoke unit would work. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Mike Dorsch CJ&M r.r."]

I'm wondering if motor oil would produce black smoke and how long the smoke unit would work. Just a thought.

Please don't try break fluid! Or even mix oil and break fluid!!

Bad things will happen.

Toad

[CPT Stryker]

No matter what oil you use, it will come out white. The black colored smoke from a diesel engine is a result of soot and unburned fuel following the combustion process. The black smoke from a steam locomotive is the result of either poor combustion of coal or low quality coal.

CPT Stryker 

 

[GP-9_Man11786]

Most diesels don't even produce black smoke unless they're in a state of disrepair. Unless of course it's an Alco.

[piercedan]

My friend got the Aristocraft SD_45 to produce black smoke in a great quantity for 5 minutes!!

 

Of course, he now has to replace the main board as it looks worse than burnt toast. 

 

Too bad a camera was not handy.

 

[REI]

My friend got the Aristocraft SD_45 to produce black smoke in a great quantity for 5 minutes!!

 

Of course, he now has to replace the main board as it looks worse than burnt toast. 

 

Too bad a camera was not handy.

 

 Well, it seems like it's just not worth it....

Honestly, I think white smoke looks better, especially for old steam engines.

[EMPIRE II LINE]

For the sake of information, using engine oil.....I have been using WD-40 for quite some time in MTH and Aristo engines.....AHHHH, oil base.....you know.....like engine oil......same result.....White smoke.....

Byron   

[Anonymous]

For the sake of information, using engine oil.....I have been using WD-40 for quite some time in MTH and Aristo engines.....AHHHH, oil base.....you know.....like engine oil......same result.....White smoke.....

Byron   

Well if you will try WD-40, then do some NOS.

Toad

[AllanE]

What you all are failing to realize is that there are two distinctly different processes to produce white and black smoke using oil. White smoke is the result of oil vaporizing when it comes in contact with a hot surface. Black smoke is the result of oil being combusted. A smoke generator will always produce white smoke as it only vaporizes the oil.

CPT STRYKER

Add a drop ot two of water before oil. Water will boil/vapourise first and will cause puffs of smoke making it look more realistic. Practice with ratio depending on smoke unit being used, too much water will cause boiling as oil is phsically forced out of resovoir. As oil floats on water a cap/layer of oil needs to be maintained so when mixture heated the water trying to boil will rise through mixture and cause a bubble thus producing puff of "steam" .

Allane  

[EMPIRE II LINE]

For the sake of information, using engine oil.....I have been using WD-40 for quite some time in MTH and Aristo engines.....AHHHH, oil base.....you know.....like engine oil......same result.....White smoke.....

Byron   

Well if you will try WD-40, then do some NOS.

Toad

 

BOOOOMMMM !!!!!!

Byron C.

[REI]

What you all are failing to realize is that there are two distinctly different processes to produce white and black smoke using oil. White smoke is the result of oil vaporizing when it comes in contact with a hot surface. Black smoke is the result of oil being combusted. A smoke generator will always produce white smoke as it only vaporizes the oil.

CPT STRYKER

Add a drop ot two of water before oil. Water will boil/vapourise first and will cause puffs of smoke making it look more realistic. Practice with ratio depending on smoke unit being used, too much water will cause boiling as oil is phsically forced out of resovoir. As oil floats on water a cap/layer of oil needs to be maintained so when mixture heated the water trying to boil will rise through mixture and cause a bubble thus producing puff of "steam" .

Allane  

 That's just what I do. Ever since I started using the water/oil mixture the engines bellow a more realistic "steamy" smoke. I think it also helps clean the unit. The bad part is that it could drip a lot of water out of the underside of the loco if you use a little too much water.

[Mr_Ash]

Add a drop ot two of water before oil. Water will boil/vapourise first and will cause puffs of smoke making it look more realistic. Practice with ratio depending on smoke unit being used, too much water will cause boiling as oil is phsically forced out of resovoir. As oil floats on water a cap/layer of oil needs to be maintained so when mixture heated the water trying to boil will rise through mixture and cause a bubble thus producing puff of "steam" .

Allane  

 I'll have to try that when I get home from work in the morning

[enginear]

Well if you will try WD-40, then do some NOS. " border="0" width="15" height="15" /> Toad

 

Dude, that's sick, haven't stopped laughing yet. Before I give away an engine maybe I'll hook up NOS and post the video for you. still laughing............. Is that highballin' enough

[Mr_Ash]

The midwest earthquake BS woke me up early this morning and I couldnt fall back to sleep so Bmann Annie RGS 25 has been getting a good work out today.

I tried the water w/smoke fluid and it seems to be producing more smoke at lower speeds. By "more" I dont mean ALOT more just a noticable difference from smoke fluid alone like I had run it the first time, its almost like im getting as much smoke with the fluid & water at 1/2 speed as I was with just smoke fluid at full speed.

This was all pulling a box car, 2 J&S coaches and a MDC caboose (all w/metal wheels) on a 14' x 10' oval (LGB track R3 curves) in my living room using an aristo basic train engineer controler (track power) running off the power pack from a LGB starter set.

BTW I think the whole thing about using smoke fulid is its safe on plastic...

Guys better watch what you use trying stuff out dont want to ruin the paint on your loco's