Soldering question

[Anonymous]

Ok, have to chime in.

Did some brazing and never did that before mind you I can weld but never did brazing. It looked like when I 1st started my stick welding days!! Dirt dobber job, and did I do some grinding on that brazing!!!

Boy do I feel like a cherry again.

Toad

[piercedan]

Never use steel wire brushes near your trains as the magnets in the engines are very powerful and will pick up any ppieces that break off.  Use a brass wire brush instead for shining up the joints to be soldered.

100 watts for code 332 is not enough heat to get soldering done.  I use a 325 watt Weller and this iron just about does the job.  I have used the 325 along with a friend holding a 250 watt on the opposite side and these together solder track very fast and nice!!!!

 

Torches work well, but when soldering you must be careful about melting the plastic ties no matter which soldering method is used.  I keep a wet rag handy and slowly wipe it from 6 inches away form the joint and drag it towards the solder joint to cool off the rail but not create a cold joint. 

 

 

[enginear]

Thank you, I'll try my welding store cause they've got the most types. I don't have a pencil torch, only a plumbing torch thats too big.

[jerryl]

 

Hoofe 116 wrote about soldering brass track:

2) Be aware that the metallurgy of brass is not constant, and likely the stuff used in RR tracks is shaded to the cheap when alloyed at the mill.

can stainless track be soldered like this?

No, not so far as I know. For stainless you need a torch (oxy/acetylene) with a tiny tip and a stainless welding rod. Be aware that not all stainless has the same metallurgy, just like all brass is not the same. Point of fact, I wouldn't even try on stainless, I'd use solder lugs and screw 'em to the rails, being sure to seal 'em after. And that may not work. Within the limits of my experience, stainless isn't considered a candidate for electrical conduction. As an aside, once I made up a couple of boathooks for my pontoon boat out of some spare stainless lying around the shop. It rusted!

Les W.

You can use silver solder with the proper flux. Same procedure as soft solder with the exception that it requires more heat & you will probably need a torch. There are many types of silver solder.  Get the one with the lowest melting point made for Stainless steel.  Jerry

[hoofe116]

 

Hoofe 116 wrote about soldering brass track:

2) Be aware that the metallurgy of brass is not constant, and likely the stuff used in RR tracks is shaded to the cheap when alloyed at the mill.

can stainless track be soldered like this?

No, not so far as I know. For stainless you need a torch (oxy/acetylene) with a tiny tip and a stainless welding rod. Be aware that not all stainless has the same metallurgy, just like all brass is not the same. Point of fact, I wouldn't even try on stainless, I'd use solder lugs and screw 'em to the rails, being sure to seal 'em after. And that may not work. Within the limits of my experience, stainless isn't considered a candidate for electrical conduction. As an aside, once I made up a couple of boathooks for my pontoon boat out of some spare stainless lying around the shop. It rusted!

Les W.

[enginear]

 

Hoofe 116 wrote about soldering brass track:

2) Be aware that the metallurgy of brass is not constant, and likely the stuff used in RR tracks is shaded to the cheap when alloyed at the mill.

can stainless track be soldered like this?

[hoofe116]

Im in the process of starting to solder my track.  I have the aristo brass and i am going to solder jumper wires. My first question is where do I solder the wire?  Looking at pictures it looks like just below the top of the rail.  before it bends inward (I hope that makes sence) also should I still use the screws aristo provides?  I got all the materials, this is my first time doing this so I hope it works.  I am using a micro torch with a tip.  That should heat the track enough.  If anyway can post a nice colored shot of their soldering work that would be a great help.  I am more of a visual learner

Snow: I hesitate to post this after reading some of the techniques already posted. It is not my intent or purpose to criticize other's methods. If it works for them, great.

My qualifications? I used to teach soldering to newbie hires at the Airplane Factory here in St.L. for awhile, until I could find honest work.

Here goes:

1) Clean your track at the space you wish to solder. Someone suggested a steel brush on a Dremel, that'd be excellent.

2) Be aware that the metallurgy of brass is not constant, and likely the stuff used in RR tracks is shaded to the cheap when alloyed at the mill.

3) Take a soldering IRON of about 100W. Why so big? Because of something I used to call 'thermal quantity'. That is, the amount of heat contained in a big tip like a 100w iron usually has. If you have a small tip, replace it with a big one, at least 1/2" across. A chisel tip would be my choice over a pointed one. The brass rail will act like a huge heat sink and suck the heat down pretty fast. A torch is going to be putting contaminants on the spot you want to solder.

4). Clean that iron's tip with a file until it is shiny copper-colored and the end is square with a narrow flat, kinda like a screwdriver's. Dunk it in paste flux, rosin, not acid flux. This is an electrical connection you're making, not hooking up a water heater feedline. Plug in the iron and wait. The flux will start to smoke. Take your solder and start dabbing at the tip, dipping it into the flux as necessary until the solder starts to flow evenly, covering the tip. You have now 'tinned the tip.' Flux it and and flux the cleaned section of rail.

5) Put the tip of the iron, carrying a small puddle of solder, squarely on the track, wherever you choose to solder it, but make sure as much metal-to-metal contact as possible is made. Touch the fluxed solder to the TRACK, not to the iron, as the manuals say. Most of 'em were written in WWII and never updated. You'll see the flux boil quickly and eventually, by dabbing the solder end at the junction of the iron and the track, you'll help transfer heat from the iron to the track. If the solder balls up, either the track's not hot enough, or clean enough, or you've got metallurgy problems. With a 100W iron, you shouldn't need even 30 seconds, more like five or ten. Do wrap the lower portion of the track with wet cloth, it'll help save the ties. But not closer than a couple of inches to the area being soldered.

6) If the track can in fact take solder, leave a puddle and let it cool. You have now 'tinned' the track.

7) Go back, reflux your iron, touch it up with more solder, and tin your piece of wire, which you forethoughtfully dipped in flux, too. It'll now be tinned. Even if it's solid wire. If it won't tin, scrape the snot out of it with your pocket knife or somesuch until you can see bright, shiny copper. Tin it.

8) Now, shake the old, oxidized solder off your iron's tip, or wipe it on a damp cloth or sponge, reflux it, dab some more fluxed solder on, and put the tinned wire on the tinned spot on the rail. Touch the iron to that spot on top of the wire. As soon as the solder on the rail turns liquid, remove the iron. DON'T Jiggle THe Wire! Blow on it lightly if you must.

That's about all there is to it. Always have lots of flux on everything. Always have the tip of the iron wet with solder. Isoprophyl alcohol will clean everything up.

Hope this helps

Les W.

[piercedan]

I have not done this but I read where a person drilled a hole on the outside bottom of the rail and inserted a tinned wire in the hole and soldered this.  He claimed faster soldering due to lower metal mass.

 

I use a 325 watt Weller gun and if I need more heat, I use the 175 watt weller on the other sid eof the rail.

 

It is much easier to solder in the heat of the day outdoors than in the winter as the track gets heated to over 100 degrees by the sun. 

[Rex in Pinetop]

Toad,

Here is that close up - uh,,, well,,, best I can do anyway.

Rex

[Anonymous]

Rex,

Yeah I have to ask, can I see a close up photo.

Thanks

Toad

[SNOWSHOE]

I make a small loop at the end of the wire, solder it so as to make a sort of ring, then use the screws that attach the ties to the rails as a mounting point.  Feel free to cut away the plastic around the screws to make mounting the wire easier.  My layout has been going since 2001 with track power and I've had no issues at all with rail joints. 

 

I can solder an unlimited number of feeders from a spool of wire for just the cost of the wire and a little solder- using only a 25w pencil iron.  I can solder up as many eyelets as I want inside, then take them out to the tracks.  This is one of the features I really like about the Aristo track, I can screw the wires in or take them out or whatever without any hassle at all- all the while keeping everything hidden underneath.

Thanks, I get it now.  I though you were using the side screws that holds the joiners.  Instead use the screws under the track.  That is a great idea and much easier.  Thanks again for the tip.

[tangerine-jack]

I make a small loop at the end of the wire, solder it so as to make a sort of ring, then use the screws that attach the ties to the rails as a mounting point.  Feel free to cut away the plastic around the screws to make mounting the wire easier.  My layout has been going since 2001 with track power and I've had no issues at all with rail joints. 

 

I can solder an unlimited number of feeders from a spool of wire for just the cost of the wire and a little solder- using only a 25w pencil iron.  I can solder up as many eyelets as I want inside, then take them out to the tracks.  This is one of the features I really like about the Aristo track, I can screw the wires in or take them out or whatever without any hassle at all- all the while keeping everything hidden underneath.

[SNOWSHOE]

I am wondering if I use the screws provided with the aristo track and make sure they are tight every so often, does anyone think I will run into problems.  I would think the screws would keep the electric connections between the tracks good jst like jumper wires. 

I tell ya I tried to solder a track using a micro torch and heating up the rail for a minute and the solder would not melt.  I am doing everything that was said, useing a micro torch, rosin solder, flux and cleaning the trail.  I would love to use rail clamps but it is too expansive.  Once i get a few jumpers done it will be be easy.  Just not sure why I am having trouble getting the solder to melt.

[Don H]

My layout has been outside for about 22 years. I ran track power for 18 of those years. I used a lot of conductive grease, with no soldiered wire or rail clamps.

[Rex in Pinetop]

Connectivity becomes an issue the second year and there after with rail joiners.  Some might last longer depending on how much water gets on the rails.  Its either solder or rail clamps if your layout is expected to last more than a year.

Rex

[Coogler Rail Line]

I am using LGB track with their joiners and haven't had many problems since I put my ballest down.  Soldering seems like a big hassle....is it really worth it?

[SNOWSHOE]

 

7.  Last but not least you might want to reconsider track power to begin with and look into battery power.  Its a whole lot less hassel.

Rex

 

Thanks.  I would love to go to battery but I cant afford it. Too expensive to start out with.  I did look into it and found this is cheaper for now.  My line is not large 60ft or so.  Soldering wont be to bad to do.

[FJ and G]

Rex said what Iwas gonna say, even a bit more

[Rex in Pinetop]

I soldered all my connections on my previous layout.  Some things I learned:

1.  Remove the ties.  If you don't then you have a good chance of melting them.  You can use a cutting wheel on your rotary tool to trim excess solder to get the ties back on.

2.  Clean the rail web well.  I used a rotary tool as mentioned above with a flapper sanding wheel.

3.  Rosin flux and a micro torch worked best for me.  I tried a really big electric gun but kept burning up the tips.

4.  Use new solid wire.  Standed wire or thin gauage wire will not last.

5.  Take the joiners off for the soldering operation.  Solder behind the joiners so you can put them back in for rail alignment.

6.  Give yourself enough wire that you can make the twist and solder operation several times because you will envariably have to move track segments sometime.  It's far easier to cut the twist, do your thing, and then have enough wire length left to reassemble (twist and solder).

7.  Last but not least you might want to reconsider track power to begin with and look into battery power.  Its a whole lot less hassel.

Rex

[jerryl]

   I soldered the railjoiners. Attach the track together with the screws as provided after the track & joiners are cleaned with a wire wheel in a motor tool. I remove 2 ties on each side of the joint & wrap water soaked towels a few inches from the joint. Using a standard propane torch & rosin core solder, apply solder to the outside joint while you apply heat to the inside joint. If the joint is properly cleaned the solder will flow to the other side of the rail, completely filling the rail joiner.  It helps to apply additional rosin to the joint before soldering, can be purchased at Radio Shack.   clean off the excess rosin after the joint cools and Replace the ties & secure with a drop of CA.   I've had no problem in 7 yrs. in the northeast. Temp range 10-90 F.   Jerry

[SNOWSHOE]

I gave up on soldering the Aristo track, instead I attach the wire underneath using the built in screw taps.

If you solder, then solder in the dimple part of the rail under the head.  It truly doesn't matter where on the side you solder, it's all the same to the wire, but for visual reasons try to hide it as well as you can.  Too close to the ties and you could melt them, too far towards the rail head and it looks like doggy doo.

When you say you use the screws to attach the wire how do you do that.  the screws seem too small or do I use longer/larger screws and does it work just as well as soldering? Thanks

 

 

[tangerine-jack]

I gave up on soldering the Aristo track, instead I attach the wire underneath using the built in screw taps.

If you solder, then solder in the dimple part of the rail under the head.  It truly doesn't matter where on the side you solder, it's all the same to the wire, but for visual reasons try to hide it as well as you can.  Too close to the ties and you could melt them, too far towards the rail head and it looks like doggy doo.

[SNOWSHOE]

Im in the process of starting to solder my track.  I have the aristo brass and i am going to solder jumper wires. My first question is where do I solder the wire?  Looking at pictures it looks like just below the top of the rail.  before it bends inward (I hope that makes sence) also should I still use the screws aristo provides?  I got all the materials, this is my first time doing this so I hope it works.  I am using a micro torch with a tip.  That should heat the track enough.  If anyway can post a nice colored shot of their soldering work that would be a great help.  I am more of a visual learner