I'd like to add that the ten wheelers, like the Annie, pulled an awful lot of passenger trains. The 2-6-0 was the freight hauler of the day. Except for the American, the 4-4-0 which was the mainstay of the first railroads hauling both freight and passengers, most engines with a four wheel leading truck were passenger engines. The four wheel truck made the engine more stable at high speeds and guided better.
The Atlantics (4-4-2) were used where the load wasn't too great. And then there were the dual use locos like the Niagaras and Northerns (4-8-4).
The Annie is a very good buy; I have two, one with Walschaerts valve gear!
Good luck,
Art
IronHoarse wrote: Thanks, I have pretty much decided to go with stainless track. It does not cost that much more than brass and sounds like less trouble. My big decision right now is whether to get an Annie or an Aristo-Craft 2-4-2 Rogers. I like then both but can only afford one engine right now. Some input on the Rogers would really be helpful. Do any of you guys run a Rogers? Thanks again!
Thanks, I have pretty much decided to go with stainless track. It does not cost that much more than brass and sounds like less trouble. My big decision right now is whether to get an Annie or an Aristo-Craft 2-4-2 Rogers. I like then both but can only afford one engine right now. Some input on the Rogers would really be helpful. Do any of you guys run a Rogers? Thanks again!
I have both, a 2-4-2 Rogers with a kitbashed coalbunker added to it and a quad of Big Haulers of various generaltions, one oldest one was an experiment to convert it to a 4-4-0, one became an 0-6-0 switcher, one is a gen 4 and the last is the current non-Annie offering, same drive, cheaper details.
Comparing the Rogers to the Bachmann, the Bachmann to me still wins out, both are good engines, but for the $ I would start with the Bachmann offering, then pick up the Aristo when you can, as I said both are godd engines, but the Annie is a stronger puller and better detailed out of the box. I had to significantly modify my Rogers to get it to where i liked it, I added a coal bunker and rebuild the cab interior and backhead, but mine was an older early version that was very toylike inside.
Now that said, scalewise, the Annie is definetly 1/22.5 and could pass for 1/24, definelty NOT 1/20.3. Now the Rogers cab is SO big its an almost obvious 1/20.3 candidate. So bear that in mind, I dont think you'll be unhappy with either offering.
Have fun with your trains
First,
Ah, the dreaded 4 foot (R-1) curves debate. They are the bane of some people's existance, and the only thing that allows some other to be in the hobby at all... I use them exclusively, and since so many other people cuss them they are usually available at shows and on evilBay CHEAP! .
To me it isn't how much space you have, but how well you use the space you've got. I have (well had, it's still partially packed from moving) a giant 5' x 8' diningroom table layout. My garden (before the big D) was only 8' x 18'. Instead of cursing about what I COULDN'T run, I made the best out of what I COULD. In my case I went with Lehmann (LGB and Toytrain) for durability because when I started Sara was quite small and I was certain she would drop it (more than) a few times.... In fact the entire train tumbled off the tabletop one day and the only damage was a couple twisted hooks on the couplers and a bent flagstand on the loco (the hook and loops stayed coupled the whole way down).
Here are a few pics of what can be done with R-1 in a small space.
Since you plan on runing under the Christmas tree, the track and power pack in a set with solid brass track would work, and the train can be run indoors or outside on larger diameter track.
I feel the biggest bargains in Garden railroading is the starter sets.
There is an LGB set with a street price around $130 with engine, 2 cars, track and power pack and connectors. Bought separately, it would cost double, retail of the pieces is almost triple. The power pack lists for $79 by itself.
Aristo has sets with the basic train engineer (orange colored transmitter/receiver). Only one can be used at a time as the crystals are all on the same frequency. Remote control of the set under the tree!!! But beware, this unit has a pulsed power output similiar to PWC.
Rayman4449 wrote: If you are still considering the track type, I put in another vote for Stainless Steel. I have 700ft outside and swear by it. If you plan to use over say 120ft linear feet or so, you will likely want to run some feeder wires to ensure the electrical resistance doesn't result in too much voltage drop.Also agree with the idea of getting an Annie as a starter engine and getting power supply and track separate. St Aubins at one point had Bachmann Annies undecorated for $99. Raymondhttp://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/
If you are still considering the track type, I put in another vote for Stainless Steel. I have 700ft outside and swear by it. If you plan to use over say 120ft linear feet or so, you will likely want to run some feeder wires to ensure the electrical resistance doesn't result in too much voltage drop.
Also agree with the idea of getting an Annie as a starter engine and getting power supply and track separate. St Aubins at one point had Bachmann Annies undecorated for $99.
Raymond
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/
SNOWSHOE wrote: vsmith, I have to agree with you. Although I am new, I have always felt that the smaller RR are my faverite. Not sure what it is about the small RR that I like, could be more focuse to detail in the landscape and track design. Creates more of a challenge because of the limited space or limit on track spending like in my case. I also liked a RR that focuses on more the wilderness/logging setting. Not much in the way of buildings etc.... I like the narrow guage trains with only a few cars being pulled. Dont get me wrong there are some great large layouts as well. That also brings more weeding etc... One RR I really like is a 7/8th scale RR called the daisy beach Railway http://home.cogeco.ca/~daisybeach/ The detail to this layout is awsome, makes me wish I could shrink myself and live in his railway layout. Very peacfull. also vsmith when you going to post more updates on your RR it has been a while.
vsmith, I have to agree with you. Although I am new, I have always felt that the smaller RR are my faverite. Not sure what it is about the small RR that I like, could be more focuse to detail in the landscape and track design. Creates more of a challenge because of the limited space or limit on track spending like in my case. I also liked a RR that focuses on more the wilderness/logging setting. Not much in the way of buildings etc.... I like the narrow guage trains with only a few cars being pulled. Dont get me wrong there are some great large layouts as well. That also brings more weeding etc... One RR I really like is a 7/8th scale RR called the daisy beach Railway http://home.cogeco.ca/~daisybeach/ The detail to this layout is awsome, makes me wish I could shrink myself and live in his railway layout. Very peacfull. also vsmith when you going to post more updates on your RR it has been a while.
Thanks, been limited to the workbench for a while, been doing lots of test runs on the layout, and learning a bit.
www.rayman4449.dynip.com
Am I right in assuming that all G locos will run on the same track provided the curves are big enough?
The Annie is nearly 2 and 1/2 feet with the loco and tender.
-Brian
Thanks again guys,
I am getting some really good feedback here and I do appreciate it. I understand the curve debate as I have o gauge Lionel now. I am running 36" curves on that layout where I could go as high as 72", but I only have room for 36" so that is what I use. Now back to G curves, I was asking about 4' curves because I am thinking of running around the Christmas tree too. I am considering 8 or 10 foot for my outside layout in Michigan. I am only in Michigan during the summer and I want to run the train in Nevada during the winter too where I will be restricted to four foot curves. I could use five foot but that would only be an oval.
One more question, how big is the Annie? LWH.
IronHoarse, you'll find all sorts of suggestions and preferences from folks here, and doing a goodly amount of reading & research before shelling out the coin is my suggestion. Make some decisions on scale (is that track going to be standard gauge or narrow gauge, and if so, what narrow gauge?). Do you feel comfortable in blending scales if it looks good to you?
A key consideration for me in starting my back yard railroad was that I really didn't want to worry about electricity and underground wiring. I know that it can be done safely, but when storms come in off the ocean at my house, it can Really Rain. Although the initial cost was more, I elected for on-board rechargeable power and remote control (with sound). I then don't have to worry about what kind of rail best conducts electricity, as the locomotives run just about like a real one. If the flangeways are clear and I keep the pine needles from piling up on the track, I can operate.
Good luck. Bill
scottychaos wrote: Unless its absolutely necessary, dont ever use 4' diameter curves!it will severely limit what you can run, and it will eventually make you unhappy..unless you only like REALLY teeny tiny industrial critters, and dont plan to ever run anything else, you should consider 8' diameter curves to be the practical minimum for Large Scale..even that is considered tight..but 90% of LS trains can handle it.. actually, the same with any other model railroad scale, just run the largest possible curves you can fit into your space..if you have room for 7.32 foot diameter, but not 8-foot, get flex track and make that! ;) even if it doesnt fit a "standard" curve size. If you have the space for 23.956 foot diameter, use that...you will be happy you did. 4-foot diameter should have never even been made...Its fine for LGB, who invented it, but its just not practical..its like trying to run HO scale SD70's and big 4-8-4's on "standard" 18-inch radius HO track..sure, it might technically work, but it looks terrible, and causes lots of operational headaches..just because you can doesent mean you should! ;) Scot
Unless its absolutely necessary, dont ever use 4' diameter curves!
it will severely limit what you can run, and it will eventually make you unhappy..unless you only like REALLY teeny tiny industrial critters, and dont plan to ever run anything else, you should consider 8' diameter curves to be the practical minimum for Large Scale..
even that is considered tight..but 90% of LS trains can handle it..
actually, the same with any other model railroad scale, just run the largest possible curves you can fit into your space..if you have room for 7.32 foot diameter, but not 8-foot, get flex track and make that! ;) even if it doesnt fit a "standard" curve size. If you have the space for 23.956 foot diameter, use that...you will be happy you did.
4-foot diameter should have never even been made...Its fine for LGB, who invented it, but its just not practical..its like trying to run HO scale SD70's and big 4-8-4's on "standard" 18-inch radius HO track..sure, it might technically work, but it looks terrible, and causes lots of operational headaches..just because you can doesent mean you should! ;)
Scot
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! He models them Maine 2 footers where the track barely curves in the first place so of course he likes them nice and wide
Now Scot, theres absolutely nothing wrong with 4' curves, you just have to know what your getting into when you decide you use them, sure your never going to run an SD-70 but who the heck besides LGB would try to make it so? (put a hinge in the middle?) Besides my Porters and my Heisler's and my Climax's just love the dickens out of them!
The issue isnt "bigger is better", its what amount of room do have to work with, that said, that will be your biggest determiner as to what size curves you should use, otherwise you could end up with only enough room for an 8' diameter circle with 2 straight sections which would be about a dull as dishwater after about 2 minutes. To paraphrase Scot, just because you should do a thing, doesnt mean you can do a thing! especially if theres no room for it
Now then Scot is correct in that you should try to use the widest curves possible, but unless your planning on buying a Aristo Dash 9 or a Bmann K27 or another of the yardstick long models, if space becomes an issue 6.5' dia would for me be the ruling minimum I would try to use for a Bachmann Annie and a string of full size cars. BTW everything from Bmann other than the K27 will run fine on 6.5' diameter, the Connie can go as tight as 5' and according to TOC it can be tweeked as low as 4', yes R1 compliant, now that would be something to see!
If your thinking Aristo Pacific or Mike or some other big stuff, then 8' is the way to go but BE AWARE layout planning with 8 footers eats ALOT of real estate real fast. You can run out of area very fast with them. Also, engines that require wide diameters REQUIRE WIDE TURNOUTS that match. This is the dirty little secret the "Bigger is Better" groupies always forget to mention, price any wide radius turn outs lately?, and you thought plain track was pricey, yikes!
BTW if you couldnt tell, I'm indoors WITH those hated 4 footers, and steep 4% grades and you'd be surprised how fun they are to work with. I have to watch loads or spin wheels, increase power uphill and down brakes going down or risk runaway, and doublehead longer trains, almost like the real thing, and all on what most would consider a postage stamp size layout, its only a measly 10' x 20'
Then again my layout inspirations were the Uintah Railway with its 60' dia hairpins on 7% grades, and the Darjeeling Himilayan Railway with 50' dia hairpins on 4% grades and virtually no straight tracks within sight, both I think blow most everything else right out of there socks!
BTW BTW Scotty knows I'm not tryin to pick on him (I hope) its just I think we're kinda on the opposite ends of the teter-toter when it comes to this diameter debate for our different reasons, both of which are valid depending on your own POV, not pickin a fight, just pickin some discussion!
BTWx3, LGB is great stuff, but the company went Kaput! and theres no sign of the new owner yet on the Horizon and the prices of the remaining stuff is going no where but up! Stuff on Evilbay is now more expensive than the on-line sellers!
To further Scotty's point - here is an Annie running on 8 foot diameter track (followed by a couple of Aristo shortie cars and a Sierra car) and a tiny eggliner running on Bachmann 4 foot track.
IronHoarse wrote:Thanks for the input guys. I think I may go with an "Annie" : http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=20010211 What scale rolling stock should I get? would this loco have pulled passenger or freight or both? Will this run on a four foot curve? What power supply should I get? I am planning on track power with the Train Engineer. Thanks again!
That's the one. You can do better on price though. Some of my favorite online stores for general items are - http://www.ridgeroadstation.com/trains.shtml and http://www.staubintrains.com/trainshop/default.asp (though St.Aubin's is better by phone). The Annie is 1:22.5 and looks good with the Bachmann big hauler cars and Jackson Sharp passenger cars, LGB cars, AristoClassic cars, and USA American series cars and USA Overton passenger cars. Some pix -
AristoClassic C-16 with the overton cars -
kitbashed loco with same cab as an Annie with (front to rear) AristoClassic car, Bachmann reefer, USA american car, LGB car, another USA car then a bashed Bachmann bobber.
same loco with a mix of all of the above -
Yes the Annie will run on 4 foot curves but it would be happier on bigger curves. It would have pulled either freight or passenger cars. The Aristo Sierra passenger cars (at 1/29) look okay with the Annie too.
Since you are going with the TE I would get an Aristo / Crest Ultima 10 amp power supply. The two were made for each other.
Added note- If you stick with all Bachmann cars you won't have to worry about coupler issues so much as large scale couplers from different manufacturer's don't all work together. Though Its not too difficult to switch everything to the same standard coupler ( I use Aristos, many use KayDees). Also Bachmann cars come equipped with metal wheels.
The Annie is a great engine, one of the best values in Large Scale IMO..but it is built to a somewhat uncommon scale..techincally I think its 1/22.5 scale, while most Narrow gauge rolling stock is either 1/24 or 1/20.3...but its a good fit for either. Its about 1890-1920 or so era, Narrow Gauge (3-foot gauge) prototype, so any Narrow Gauge rolling stock will fit...which means basically anything available in Large Scale EXCEPT 1/29 or 1/32 scale..1/29 and 1/32 are standard gauge.everything else is narrow gauge.
If you buy an Annie, you are basically modeling 3-foot gauge narrow gauge.
1/20.3, 1/22.5 and 1/24 scales all roughly fit.
(most 1/22.5 scale is European meter gauge..except for some LGB American-style trains, and some Bachmann..)
The correct scale, and the most common scale, for 3-foot gauge modeling is 1/20.3..The Annie goes fine with most 1/20.3 scale trains, although she is somewhat small for that scale..but not terribly small IMO.
The Annie, being a 4-6-0, is primarily a freight engine, although its fine for passenger trains too. Today, the prototype of the Annie, Tweetsie number 12, hauls plenty of passenger trains as a tourist railroad engine:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=130347&nseq=39
technically it should be considered a freight engine..but real railroads used 4-6-0's for both freight and passenger trains..so either could be prototypically accurate..
Since you are going to be buying your track separately anyway, I would skip the starter set. The power supplies in them are enough for only one small loco anyway. The track is only 4 foot diameter, the smallest available. Some of the Bachmann stater sets out there may have been sitting on retailer's shelves for years and the ten wheeler (4-6-0) in the set may not have the most current drive train. If you like the ten wheeler, pick up an "Annie" (anniversary edition) with the current drivetrain and very nice detailing. There is the question of scale too (its very confusing). If you plan on a more modern era (big steam and diesels) look at the 1/29 offerings of Aristo and USA trains. If you like more of the old time steam there is a mix of narrow gauge offerings out there. The AristoClassics line, USA American series and Hartland come in 1/24 scale. Bachmann Big Haulers, and most LGB are in 1/22.5 (the 1/22.5 and 1/24 mix very well). The Bachmann Spectrum line in 1:20.3 (the correct 3 foot narrow gauge scale) has geared steamers, porters, 4-4-0's, and a mogul and now a line of rolling stock to go with it. Lots to study up on.
Are LGB locos worth the extra dough? Some think so. None of my dozen or so locos are LGB so I'm not the best to judge that.
If you plan on using track power, stainless steel track is the way to go. I have been very happy with mine. Track cleaning is minimal (no scrubbing with pole sanders).
Age is only a state of mind, keep the mind active and enjoy life
Hello,
I am now into O gauge, but I am looking to expand to G too. I am looking for advice on which brand to consider. I am looking at either Aristo-craft or Bachman starter set. I plan on running outside so I am planning on getting Aristo-craft brass track regardless of which brand I choose. Is brass O.K. or should I consider stainless. I have also considered LGB trains, but they seem to be quite a bit more money. Are they that much better? Any and all advice will be welcome. And thanks in advance!
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