My first mistake

[Soulman]

I've got a good one for everyone.  After all the planning, measuring and remeasuring, thinking I all of my grades were below 3.5 %, I come to find out that I have 3 small sections that are above 5%!   I can't even begin to tell any of you folks how the heck I screwed this up.   The areas in question are between 6 -8 feet; two are off spurs, one section is on the mainline. Can a loco pull/push 5 or 6 cars up a 5 - 6% grade? 

At this point all I have done is trench and fill with limestone screenings. What would be the best route to take if I have to fix? Backfilling? Something like Splitjaw roadbed? 

Any help will be appreciated.

Soulman

[altterrain]

It would help to know what locos you plan on running. Bachmann ten wheeler - NO, Bachmann shay - YES. It sounds like you only need make a correction of an inch or two. Backfilling should do the trick. Use a small, sharp gravel (1/2 minus, CR6, chips or similar) and then top with your limestone screenings and water it in well a few times. I would not worry about the spurs much unless you are planning on parking cars on them and they will roll on their own. The mainline is the primary consideration. Better to fix now than strip a gear or burn out a motor later.

-Brian 

[Soulman]

altterrain:

Thanks for the input.  I have an LGB mogul and a 0-4-0 w/powered tender at the present. I will most likely pick up a Bachmann 3 truck shay, and the K-27 (according to St. Aubin's, non DCC K-27 will be out around Christmas); considering an aristo -9 as well.

One spur will be a logging line....so I suppose in this case, problem solved.

The other splits off the main, then basically splits again into a "Y" of sorts. The top of the spurs are flat; its the run from switch to switch (about 7 feet) that has the grade.

The mainline section in question is a 3 x 10' curve, 3' of straight, then another 2 x 10' curve. The problem here seems to be the last sections of curve and the 3' section. The entire layout will have about 110' of track. 

I really appreciate your help.

Soulman 

 

[kstrong]

A 5% grade on spurs shouldn't be an issue. The 0-4-0 with powered tender is definitely up to the task. The Shay and -9 shouldn't have any trouble either, especially with trains that short.

But getting up the hill is only half the battle. You're probably going to find that you have as much trouble with trains going down the hill, too. That's because the worm gears on various locomotives tend to bind when pushed forward. Dad's got a long stretch of 5% grade on his railroad. While most locos on his roster are capable of 5 or 6 cars up, they get real jerky going back down because the weight of the train is pushing on the locomotive. The solution is shorter trains, or some kind of retainer on the last car to introduce a bit of drag, keeping some of the weight from pushing on the loco.

Best, however, if you can re-engineer the line to lessen the grade. A 5% grade on a curve has a multiplying effect, making the grade feel steeper than it measures.

Later,

K

[Soulman]

Kevin:

Thanks for your input; you bring up a few points that I have not thought of.  My plan is to pick up some C6 material and build up the areas in question. In the long run, I think it will prove to be the best solution. I'm trying make my railroad right as I can from the get go; a little re-engineering does not bother me. I will post the results of my efforts this weekend.

Once again, your time is appreciated.

Soulman

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

Kstrong, I've been seeing a setup on some batterie powered toy trains where the motor has the worm gear and spins a standered gear, but the diference is that it isnt directly mounted to the axle. It sortof floats over top the axle and locks to a plate with pressure from a spring. when theload is too much insted of stripping anything the plate and gear septatesand slides to the next noch and relocks.

[Soulman]

Update:

I bought 1000# of CA6, which has sharp small rock and limestone screenings, and tried to level the areas in question. Of the areas in question, one area now is 3.8%, another is now 4.1%. Am I now in the zone of acceptability for these areas?

I also discovered that while backfilling, my original template had changed. I had planned on using 10' curves throughout; now it appears that using a few 8' curves intermixed with the 10's allow the mainline to follow the subroadbed better. Should I have any concerns here, or can I use the few 8's without any difficulties??

Thanks,

Soulman 

 

 

 

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

 Don't worry about the curves( just don't run any hunderd foot auto racks without altering the cuppler pockets first) in other words you shuld be more than fine!  

[altterrain]

You should be fine with shorter trains and those grades. The only caveat is your plans for a dash 9. It will run on 8 foot curves but looks silly doing so, overhanging the track. I have a E-8 and don't like to run it on my loop with the 9 foot curves. Two axled truck dismals like a FA1, RS3, U25, GP9, etc. might work out better.

-Brian 

[Anonymous]

mine is asking questions......

[kstrong]

As others have said, you should be fine with those numbers (grades and curves). My suggestion for the curves would be to try to arrange the sections so that each segment of 8' diameter curve has at least a section of 10' diameter curve on either side as a transition. By "segment," I don't mean each piece of 8' curve, but each group of curved sections needed to make the turn. It may be one, it may be 6 or 8 sections, depending on how much curvature you'd need.

For instance:

straight - straight - 10' - 8' - 8' - 8' - 10' - straight would give you around a 90° bend. (97.5°, actually)

Try not to do something like 10' - 8' - 10' - 8' - 10' as that ends up looking very choppy and uneven.

One caveat: With the Aristo-Craft track, each 8' dia. section makes a 22.5° arc, so you need 4 pieces to go 90°. The 10' diameter curves are 30°, so you'd need only 3. So, if you're planning on mixing the two fairly interchangeably, you may need to do some cutting. (No big deal, you'll likely have to do some cutting anyway.)

Later,

K

[Soulman]

To all:

Thanks again for all the input.  One of the curves in question will be 10-8-10; the other was 4  sections of 10.  I am going to try 10-8-8-8-10 in this area and see if this works. Good thing my brother loaned me his Dremel!

Based on this configuration, do you guy's still think the -9 will look goofy? If so, so be it. I will stick with plan "A" (mainly steam). 

I'll post something tomorrow on my progress.

Soulman

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

Maby a little, but thode 10s are gona help. It'll prevent the front needing to swing so far and allows the rear truck to at least enter the curve before the front reaches the 8s.

[Soulman]

After a long, hot day I have made progress. The money I invested in Splitjaw clamps solved my curve problem. The sections went together as planned (I used a credit card for expansion gaps), so I'm back to all 10' curves.

I'm still having a problem with the grade on one section of curve; I've been using a string level as I go.   If you can imagine the main running west to east for 202", the difference in elevation is 2.5", which is .012 or a 1.2% grade. The line turns "north" via 4 sections of 10' curve with a difference in elevation of 4", then continues for 12' of straight which is level.  I come up with a grade through the curves of 3.2%. Can anyone tell me if I figured the grade through the curves correctly??  I followed the formula in the Garden Railroading book on page 23.

Thanks again for everyone's help. Hopefully, I'll stop bugging all of you soon!

[kstrong]

Yes, you did. A 3.2% grade isn't at all bad, and should be able to be handled by most everything you want to run. Much better than the 5 and 6% grades you had originally! Glad you could get away without the 8' diameter curves, too. I think you'll be much happier.

Later,

K

[Soulman]

Holy cow. I actually did something right!  Thanks, Kevin.

I'm finishing up track installation and ballasting; with my work schedule, I should be done next week.  I'll see if I can post some pic's soon.

Soulman

 

[smcgill]

YES !!!

Your first mistake was to admit to it!

No I desighned it that way!