glue questions for kit building

[FJ and G]

In the smaller scales, super glue is used a lot in putting wood kits together. Is this practice ok for building rolling stock that will be used outdoors?

Also, abbreviations confuse me. I have a kit with instructions that call for CA glue. Later, the term ACC is used. What do these abbreviations mean and is there a difference between them?

Lastly, are all brands/types of super glue equal to the task? (I realize that "super glue" is a brand name and it might be called crazy glue or something else).

MUCH thanks!

[vsmith]

ACC = CA same thing, cyno-acryilc adhesive. I use the thicker stuff called Zap-Gap which helps fill openings, I've just found it adhers better that the thin standard superglue. It doesnt get as brittle as the thin stuff also.

I have found that CA Zap-Gap adhers really well with wood parts as long as your not leaving it constantly exposed to the weather, then the mechanical adhesion tends to get worn down and failure can occur. Epoxy works best but takes the longest to build with.

[FJ and G]

thanks much!

[altterrain]

I use CA alot. I believe the difference between CA ( Cyanoacrylate) and ACC is there has been an accelerating agent added (to make it set faster). The only downfall of CA is it does not stand up to moisture long term so its outoor use is limited. I get my CA at the local hobby shop and keep a few different thicknesses on hand. It comes in super thin to gel vicosities. I found this very informative article on CA here - http://jimsrc.com/CA.html.

 -Brian

[Rastun]

Now I never thought of CA for a wood glue. I'm not real impressed with CA most of the time anyway I think the bond it makes is way to brittle. When I'm building wooden cars, buildings or structures for outside I usually use Titebond 3 which is waterproof. I have an abutment that I glued together last year and it's been in ground contact all winter. The only thing wrong with it is the dogs took it and broke one wing of it off. In normal use it would have still been perfect.

Jack 

[FJ and G]

the difficulty with titebond and other wood glues is the setup time is a bit length. Ok I guess if you got lots of clamps; but hard if you want to get a lot of detailed parts together quickly.

I suppose what I ought to do is use wood glue and right before putting the wood together add a drop of ACC or CA, WHATEVER the heck it is, and push together. That way, I'd have a fast clamp and good joint.

Does that sound like a plan or what?

[cabbage]

My method is to use CA to tack weld the wooden parts together and then paint either PVA or epoxy along the joints. The first soaks into the wood, the second sits on top -either way I get a nice strong joint.

regards

ralph

[Rastun]

Clamps are cheap, or rubber bands, tape, etc.  I guess I'm just not in a such a hurry to get things done that I want to take short cuts to get where I'm going.

[vsmith]

Heck I us CA because I tend to build so fast and dirty to the point I've glued my fingers to the model hold part together

When I have to switch to epoxy I try to make that the last thing I do at the end of a session, so I can walk away and come back the next day and resume the blur of construction.

[FJ and G]

Heck I us CA because I tend to build so fast and dirty to the point I've glued my fingers to the model hold part together

When I have to switch to epoxy I try to make that the last thing I do at the end of a session, so I can walk away and come back the next day and resume the blur of construction.

 

I feel dizzy already

 

(hmmm, I'm trying to picture squeezing (or rubbing) epoxy thru the cracks in the wood of the finished model). Would probably strengthen the wood itself quite a bit, tho you'd loose some of the grain.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Now I'm wondering whether to stain the wood before or after the glue. There are (like many things) 2 schools of thought to this, it seems.

Some prestain the wood prior to gluing b/c staining it after and hit a spot of dried glue and it shows up after it's dry; but I think I'll stain the wood afterwards and just be careful how I'm gluing it. Speeds up the process to stain last.

[ttrigg]

I've had very good luck using a super glue gel from "Zep" (they have been known for yeas as chemical cleaning agents for the automotive repair industry.) Some times I can get it at home depot, on occasion I've been able to buy it off a mechanic friend. It works great on plastics and metals.
On wood I try to stay with one of the gorilla glues. The only bad part about using gorilla is the "foam" that must be cleaned up afterwards. It's holding strength is most impressive. I've had some stuff out in the weather now for three years, yes, I've had to repaint it but not re-glue it like some of the other wood things in the garden. The very first thing I used the gorilla glue on was a "timber" retaining wall, that I built during the summer of '04 and been in the ground since, and doing very well. I built it with redwood "timbers" (1/2"x1/2"x12"), glued the timbers together, shot in a few 1 inch brads, laid it down in "pan" (aluminum foil folded to make a pan) soaked it with copper-green preservative and stuck it in the ground. Must wear rubber gloves when working with this stuff, get some on your fingers and it will peel off the top couple of layers of skin when trying to clean up.

[Rene Schweitzer]

Tom, I wanted to add a comment about Gorilla Glue. A couple of years ago, there was a discussion here on this product. It ended up coinciding with an article we ran in the magazine, which I have put online here: http://www.trains.com/grw/default.aspx?c=a&id=483

 In short, the mating surfaces need to be moistened beforehand. I wanted to mention this so the OP isn't left in the dark if his kit (possibly) doesn't hold up after using Gorilla Glue.

[cacole]

Super Glue tends to soak into the wood and not adhere well.  I have had better luck with an exterior grade yellow carpenter's glue such as Elmers Pro-Bond, suitably clamped until dry.

When I do use CA, I coat both surfaces and let it soak in, then use a second coat for the actual bonding.

 

[FJ and G]

cacole,

 

that's EXACTLY the problem I experienced! I used the viscous variety but had better luck 2 weeks ago with the gel variety of super glue.

 

(I used to think Super Glue was a trade name, but then I saw it being called that by different manufacturers). 

[ttrigg]

Sorry:  I need to amend my previous comments.  I should have included the following additional bits of info!  
Plastic:- ZEP super glue gel;  In some cases (POLA) reinforced with marine Goop and lots of it!

Wood:- rough cut "timbers and planks" cut by me on my table saw - the gorilla glue.  Allows both pieces to be wet and easy enough to carve off the "foam" the glue generates.  Stands up to water and dirt, I have it on some retaining walls that actually retain dirt.

Wood Kits:- (only one to date) Elmers exterior carpenter glue. It is stainable, NO it will not completely match the rest of the wood but it will take about 75% of the stain.  This one seems to come apart every year and needs to be re-glued.  I know that the gorilla glue would do the trick but the foam removal would be too much of a pain in the posterior.

[wildbill001]

Be aware that Gorilla Glue and its brethren are extremely toxic to dogs and other pets.  I mention this because dogs seem to love the spell of the stuff and will try to eat it.

 

Bill W