Some helpful ideas for newcomers

[brianel027]

Alright, I don't know how much here will be useful, but I thought I'd share some simple and low cost ideas for those of you who are new to trains and are doing the layout with kids...
•Keep the layout simple and allow the kids to come up with ideas of where they'd like a switch or a bridge.
•Devote a plain flat car for cars and truck (since kids love vehicles): take a strip of self-adhesive insultation tape and run in down the center of the flat car length-wise. Now the kids can easily load and unload their cars and trucks on to the flat car,regardless of the size and length of the vehicle. The insulation tape will hold the vehicle in place. Or use a cut piece of the thin soft-foam that comes as packing material with many electronic items. Place the foam on the flat car and set the vehicle on top of that.
•Start with accessories that interact with the trains: things like crossing signals, crossing gates, etc. The MTH/Railking disappearing freight and passenger platforms are fun by utilizing simple illusion and can be located at the front or back of the layout.
•Buy train cars that the kids can play easily with: gondolas, flat cars, box cars all offer easy loading and versatilty. Especially gondolas. The Lionel Spring Loaded dump cars are fun, but the tabs break easily: especially on the coal dump car with the bin on it (the extra weight of the bin seems to put more stress on the plastic pins). Stick with the Log unloading type car. Or step up to the MTH Railking Dump cars... they're a little on the big side, but DO clear Lionel 027 switches. The motorized operation of the car is really great and I've seen them listed in the train mags for less than $25.00 but you'll need a special remote control track to operate them (another $10-$15).
•Keep an open eye for other toys that are sized right for the trains. The other day I found some SpongeBob figures in a bubblegum machine that were about an 1-1/2 inch high... kids love that stuff. I found a Garfield figure on a rocking horse that I put in a gondola: Garfield rocks aways as the train rolls down the track.
•Let the kids pick out a building kit... the K-Line or Plasticville Farm is a good choice... the kids can put the animals into a gondola. Wal-Mart sells 8x10 inch sheets of colored felt: a brown or yellow piece can be a field for a farm. Those rectangle kitchen scouring pads in green and yellow can also serve as a field for the farm. I took a green one and my nephew put a fence on it and that's where he puts his cows and horses. Those green scouring pads can also be cut into strips and serve as bushes in front of a house.
•If you painted your train board dark brown, grey or black instead of green, those 8x10 inch felt sheets (or construction paper) can serve as lawns for houses (green) and fields for farms (brown, yellow, green).
•Once you have a simple layout, I find kids like to move the buildings around to where they want them. A gas station is another good one that allows the kids to play with vehicles too. You can use black construction paper for roads. Old disgarded flat wide vacuume cleaner belts can be cut and used with 027 or 0 tubular track for grade crossings.
•An old disgarded artifical christmas tree - the older types with metal center branches and the longer plastic needles - can be cut with a hacksaw and shaped with scissors to literally make a forrest. They're not the most detailed trees, but fine for background trees or a kids layout. I've seen 'em at yard sales for $5-$10: a real deal when compared to buying boxes of trees made for train layouts.
•If you're using tubual 027 or 0 gauge track, and are handy with a razor blade and ruler, you can make ties for the track out of black foam core board available at an art supply or framing shop. The foam core comes in a couple of thicknesses and with the track screwed down, you'll slide the foam core ties under the rail and this will also help quiet down some of the rumble noise of the train board.
•I've seen these bags of wooden cubes at craft and dollar stores... a perfect freight load for a train car. If you're handy with ruler and ballpoint pen, you can drawn lines on the wooden cubes to simulate the wood plank pattern found on a real shipping crate.
•If you're moving buildings around a lot, but still want them to light up, you can use something as simple and crude as a couple of C or D size batteries duct taped together. Take an old string of christmas lights, and cut off a bulb base with enough wire to tape the stripped ends to each end of the batteries. Those holiday light bulbs are usually 2.5-3.5 volts and will work with a couple of batteries. The advantage is you can move the buildings around without drilling holes. The disadvantage is you have to either wire in a slide off/on switch or untape the wire when done playing with the trains.
•The older bare-bones K-Line transformer is a cheap one. But it does start at zero volts unlike many Lionel ones which start at 6 volts. That K-Line one can be found cheaply at train shows or on ebay and is great for powering lights, especially if you use the christmas type lights which need less power and will burn out if given too much. You could selectively drill holes and wire in a few bulbs here and there and allow the kids to move the buildings from one bulb location to another.

Anyways, just a few ideas I've learned from experience. Anything you can do to save money on scenery things allows you more money to buy a new train car or extra track. And anything that your kids can help do gives them an opportunity to learn and instills pride. And when kids put their own time and effort into something, I find they have more interest in taking care of it and making sure it doesn't get broken!

Happy trains folks!
brianel, Agent 027

[Anonymous]

brian, thanks for the advise. I brought my boys (10 &12) a starter MTH kit for Christmas and really hope they will take it up as a hobby. If they don't, I think I might be hooked. My local train store (Locust Grove Trains in Va has been a big help, but I won't be able to learn too much until the boys unwrap. I have a big unfinished basement and want to start with a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I am interested in finding out what to do next - after the starter set and plain plywood. Do I paint the plywood, use a base of foam? Also, what is the best way to get some basic variety in the layout. I could spend a little more after christmas and want to do it wisely.
Thanks, jmuerd

[brianel027]

Well you may want to see how the boys get into it before launching into it too much. Since you bought a MTH set, it probably has the RealTrack which comes in a molded roadbed, so you could lay down indoor-outdoor carpeting for a start. Check with the local carpet places: maybe one of them has some remainder pieces that you can get for less and that would be either the right size or a couple pieces that could be cut to your needs. Probably you want more track since you don't get too much with the MTH stater set.The MTH track has an advantage of immediate set up, but is a little expensive. You might even think about keeping the MTH track for the Christmas tree layout and use Lionel '027' or 'O' tubular track: it is less expensive and you can find decent track used too. Okay, so say you're sticking with the MTH track... you might want a switch and an operating track... MTH Railking makes a wonderful log and coal dump car that works with a motor. The car is advertised in the train mags for between $20-$35 depending on road name. A fun car for sure. Keep in mind you can run other makes of cars with the MTH ones. Industrial Rail cars are very nice and bargain priced these days for usually under $15. The MTH Rugged Rails cars are in the same league, but not nearly as much variety. Also look at the K-Line Train-19 cars... I think those have the nicest trucks (wheel sets) K-Line has done with a pretty good variety. Lionel and K-Line both make spring loaded log dump cars for $30 list and around $22 in the train mags.

If you guys start getting into it, you can take up the carpeting and lay down a layer of the pink insulation styrofoam so you can cut in some creeks and ditches. You can also use the pink stuff to build mountains... (the pink stuff has a higher density than the blue or the white stuff, but you can use those too.)

Good luck and hope the boys like it!! brianel

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply. I never thought about the carpet idea. It comes out of the box tomorrow and we'll see what happens. The dump cars may be fun, but I'll take your advise and see how much they get into it. I think this has a good chance of breaking them away from computer games - they can even use the computer to to play with layouts!
Thanks again, jmuerd

[brianel027]

Jmuerd, keep in mind you'll probably never completely pull the boys away from the computer games. BUT this can be a project in which you all can interact and participate in. AND there are some interesting websites out there (if the boys are internet savy) on the real railroads... just do a search. There's a good photo site on Conrail, CSX and Norfolk Southern... so whatever railroads are in your neck of the woods - there's probably something. A lot of guys with layouts have websites with photos. A gift subscription to one of the train mags: Classic Toy Trains or O Gauge Railroading may also help spark some interest. The mags list train shows, which are a good place to find used and beat up items which can serve as fix up projects. Even the lesser expensive items can easily make a good project to add details to. I've taken the el-cheapo Lionel steamers and added marker lights, handrails, headlights, improved traction and repainted them so they look much nicer than they once did. Things like that can help stimulate involvement as well as be projects in learning and creativity.
Even if the boys don't jump up and down at first, if they see Dad taking an interest, they may also help start things along. I wish you luck. It can potentially be an expensive hobby, but with some ingenuity, creative thinking, do-it-yourself logic and watching for sale prices in the train mags, it can be done on a budget.
brianel

[brianel027]

Hey gang, I have a couple more ideas for your creative thinking:
•Consider what I jokingly call "Poor-man's Trainmaster Control" which is nothing more than a 2 foot long by 5/16 square basswood stick painted black. On one end of the stick is an "L" shape hook (drill a pilot hole then screw in the hook) and on the other is a rubber protector that fits over the stick end. With this I can operate manual switches, uncouple cars, push a car at the back of the layout, or prompt a derailed car back on the track.
•Now I don't know much about the MTH RealTrack or the Lionel FasTrack switches. But I do know the Lionel and K-Line 027 manual switches can be made to be "automatic." I actually prefer the manual switches here: the Lionel 027 electric switch operates off the track power, which means the train has to be running at a good speed to activate the switch. You can fanagle with the wiring to make them operate off auxiliary power, but you still have the 'operating rails' which drain track power every time a train runs over them. So I've used nylon fish line to make the manual switches operate from the front of a train layout. You'll need to drill a small hole in the control lever, and drill some angled holes into the train board on each side of the lever. You may need to a small roller of some kind (like a small sewing thread spool) under the layout. And you'll want to make some sort of handle to go over the fishline at the operating end. But basically you'll pull on the fishline from the front of the layout and beable to operate the switches. You might be able to use the concept of this idea to operate the other switches too.
•If you are a creative thinker like me, you can probably come up with your own ideas utilizing nylon fishline and springs to make your own animated accessories... make a forklift truck go back and forth - or attaching a plastic figure to a metal base and using a magnet underneath a loading dock platform or the layout board (depending on the thinkness of the layout board and the magnet strength) you can make people move around, again using the fishline with a magnet attached. I've seen super-strength magnets at my local hardware store.
•A simple insulated track can be made from a foil cake tin and carpeting tape. Let's say you want to operate one of those flashing #154 Highway Signals. Instead of the #154 contactor, take one of those heavier foil cake tins (the larger flat ones) and you'll want to cut an "L" shaped piece: maybe 2 inches long by 1/4 inch wide with the lower part of the "L" being about 1/2 wide by 3/4 inch long. The reason for the "L" shape is I found you cannot solder wire to the aluminum foil, so instead you'll use this lower part that will stick off on the outside of the track to attach the wire by rolling the foil around it. You'll take a piece of double-sided sticking carpet tape and cut a piece 2 inches long by 1/4 wide that will stick on the long side of the "L." This will be adhered to the track and then you bend the foil contactor to fit the curve shape of the track. You make 2 of these and wire up the #154 the same way you would with the #154 contactor. You can make a longer "insulated rail" to operate other things like crossing gates. I have found that periodically I have to push down and bend the self-made insulated rail to the track rail shape since it has a tendency over time to want to straighten out. But this is an easy way to make an insultated rail, especailly if your track is already down or if you want to operate something in a corner off a curve track. Of course you can take apart the "027" and "0" tubular track to make your own insulated rail, but I find this is more effort and aggrivation than the before mentioned idea.

Anyways folks, just trying to spark your creative juices. I've heard so many newcomers say this is an expensive hobby. Which is why I always encourage beginning modelers to use some ingenuity and create things. It's not only fun, but if you're doing the layout with your kids, there's nothing better than hearing the pride of a youngster say to his or her friends "I made this" or hearing the comments from friends saying "that's a real clever idea... I never would have thought of that."
With so many toys these days that do everything and don't allow any imagination, a train layout can not only be fun, but it can be a learning experience too.
brianel

[Anonymous]

Thank you brianel027,

This is the money saving thread I have been looking for. I am new to this and am broke after Christmas every year. If you have anymore ideas, please post them.

420Express

[brianel027]

Here's another idea for some of you newcomers with kids. You've probably noticed how pricey some of the Lionel Disney and Warner Brothers related cars are. I see that MTH has just announced a SpongeBob Square Pants Dockside Train Set (great idea MTH!!).
But you can easily make some stuff of your own...

You may have seen the wide variety of kid's stickers that are made now in everything from Bugs Bunny to Disney characters to RugRats and SpongeBob. Of course you could redo a train car using these, but here's a much simplier idea: use the round canisters that come with many Lionel gondolas or the square load boxes that come with many K-Line gondolas. Most of the Lionel plain unprinted canisters are either gray, white or orange with no lettering on them. There are some canisters that have lettering on them. I wouldn't use those - there's so many out there that are plain with no printing on them. Many of the K-Line boxes have a railroad logo on them, but many do not. These are usually yellow. You can also order plain ones from K-Line. You can put whatever stickers you like on these canisters and boxes. I've put some SpongeBob stickers on the boxes for my nephew. Needless to say, kids love this kind of thing. Prototype, no - but fun? Heck yes.

You could even use the black or clear plastic 35mm film containers for this sort of thing. With the clear containers, you could put a cut piece of colored paper rolled inside the container to give it some color. Or put some colored sand inside - but there's the danger of a potential mess if the kids open that up!!
You could also use the colored caps off small cans of spray paint. They won't fit into a gondola, but they'll fit on a flat car. Use a strip of the self-adhesive insulation tape along the inside of the colored cap sticking down just a hair to keep them from sliding around on a flat car.

I've also seen and used these little battery powered flashing lights. They make them as belly button things and hip-teen jewelry kind of things. But they work only when you move the item. So you drill a hole into the top of one of the K-Line boxes or Lionel canisters and put the flashing light into it. Load these up into a gondola and the lights flash whenever the train is moving. When the train is still, the lights eventually go off.

A friend of mine got his kid a Lionel set. His kid loves the Tazmanian Devil. So I found a real beat up Lionel steam tender - a cheap one with no whistle. Cleaned it up, put a fresh coat of flat black spray paint on it and added some Taz stickers on each side. Even minus the whistle, the kid loves that. And his dad will probably order the parts and make it into a whistling tender.

These canisters and boxes are pretty common and inexpensive. So adding the lights or stickers isn't really ruining anything of great financial value. And it's another way to make the trains just a little bit more fun for the kids. Adding these flashing lights to the containers is one way of making an "operating" car for a fraction of the cost of buying one.

[cnw1995]

Wow, these ideas are great. I can't wait to try some of them out with my kids.

[brianel027]

Here's another idea inspired by need and a kid's train layout. I helped a friend build a small door layout for his son. But his kid was impressed with how I can run an engine into a siding and then pull out another engine on to the main line. I explained to his dad about the insulated block. But a look under my layout kinda frightened him... complicated wiring, so he thought. Not that my wiring is that bad, but I can understand how it would intimidate him.

So we found these little plastic boxes, not very big, but large enough for a slide on/off switch. They spray painted them silver to mimic trackside electrical boxes. Then mounted the slide switch in the top of the box. Without drilling any holes in the door, one short piece of wire was soldered to the center rail just on each side of the point in the track where the insulating pin was put. Running the wires under the track they were connected to the slide switch box which was glued right next to the siding.

Being there were only a couple of siding and with the small layout size, the idea worked well for them. We put one more on the "main line" for shutting off the power on the running loco, so the other could be pulled out. The buttons are all within easy reach and easy for the kid to figure out since they are right next to the track section that is either on or off.

A simple idea for solving what can be a complicated wiring problem, at least for a beginner.

[johnnyc]

Hi brianel027 ,

Excellent ideas ! I'm impressed .

I've scanned images of whatever the kids are into , Neopets , Yu-Gi-Oh , or whatever and print them on address labels . The kids love it , and keeps them interested .

Did you ever consider you're own website ? You really should .

[^] thanks , johnnyc

[Dr. John]

Great ideas!

CTT had a reecent article (last fall I believe) on using carpet with roadways preprinted on it as a layout covering. Lionel produced some inexpensive manual accesories such as a barrell loader that works great for kids and can usually be found for around $5.00. Don't forget gondolas and open hoppers for carrying loads! Also, velcro works well on flat cars for heavier or taller loads.

[thor CNJ]

You guys are a trip. There's a simple toy that goes great with trains:

ARMY MEN

All kinds, from Wild West to World War 2, take your pick.

Check the Army Men page in my signature and you will see what I mean.

[brianel027]

Okay all, I know they have Wal-Mart's everywhere. Of course the vending machines by the front doors are probably run by individual vendors. But the other day when I was at my local Wal-Mart I noticed (in addition to the SpongeBob figures) there was another vending machine and this one full of Bugs Bunny characters. They're 50¢ and just the right size to use with our trains. Looks like some of the figures were made to go on pencils since some are reaching around or have a twisted tail. There's two Bugs figures (one with a small magnet in him), Pepe LePew, a couple different Road Runner characters, Yos. Sam, and a Taz mounted to a thin springy piece of metal with a suction cup. These all have loads of possibilities for use with animations of just fun for the kids.

And remember when you buy this kind of stuff (Disney, or anything else) part of the expense is the licensing fee... not that they aren't too expensive in the first place. BUT with these figures you can make you own at a fraction of the cost. Replace the blue man in a "peek-a-boo" box car with one of these. I have one with Mickey Mouse in it and another with Elmo from Sesame Street.

Nevermind the latest new scale loco... this is the kind of stuff that gets kids to really take notice of the trains. And when kids take notice, the parents often do too.

Hey, I may be a 027 hi-railer, but I'm also a kid at heart. I took a Grover Monster character from Sesame Street that was on a pencil, sliced a slit where he was "grabbing' the pencil, and now I have him waving from a water tower: I remounted him to one of the corner braces of the tower. Kids love that. Hate to admit it, but so do I... I'm kind of a fan of Grover. "Hey Froggie Bay-beeee..."

[nitroboy]

Brianel, I have copied and printed your above posts. These are the tips I come to this forum for. Anything I can do to make things easier on the wallet are great. I love the one about the stickers. Thanks a million!!!!

Dave

[FJ and G]

Nice post, Brian, & some good advice.

My 2 cents:

1. Arrange wires so you can easily identify which is which. If there's a tangle of wires, this could be hazardous because you could get entangled in them and be trapped under your layout where no one will be able to find you.

2. Put drop wires every 3 feet so your current stays regular (nothing like staying regular)

3. If you have any nasty curves near the edge of the layout, plant some trees there, sturdy oaks, preferably, so your train will not go airborn if, by accident, you hit the accelerator instead of the brakes.

4. Get the kids and wife or significant other (or both if you are so lucky) involved in some of the scenery. My daughter, for instance, will paint my backdrop during Spring break next week.

5. Ensure there is enough walking room around the layout; also, decide if your train layout will dominate the basement. Do you like to play pool? Do you want to install a wet bar and hot tub? Do you want to have a movie room and disco so you can shake your boodie? If so, then consider a narrow shelf layout. That is what I am currently building.

dave vergun

[jkerklo]

Brainel,

You have some great ideas, not just for newcomers. The theme of this topic has been more "getting kids interested in trains." I like it. Good ideas for grandfathers to get their grandkids interested in trains.

Let me build on your theme a bit.

My father showed me how to wire the trains. Making transformer/track connections, switches, wiring accessories, everything. By the time I was eleven or so, I was responsible for doing all the wiring when the trains were set up for Christmas.

The basic understanding of electricity and switches, formed young, likely led to my pursuit of electrical engineering and eventual career in computers.

Simple things, like stripping wire and making connections (wrapping the wire around the screw the right way), etc. are a good start.

I would start with basic track connections, switches for blocks (as you mentioned) switches and controls for accessories, and lighting. Perhaps, show how an accessory or light can be turned on or off from two different places; things like that.

The Marx crossing gate and flashing crossbuck were key to my understanding of how train wheels could be used to operate an accessory. These came with wired "overrails" that clearly demonstrated what was happening. They are hard to find still with the overrail, but an isolated rail will serve as well.
See following for a picture, if you are not familiar with the overrails.

http://www.three-rail.com/TAMXCB.HTM

Then, a few relays connected to isolated rails, and you're there.

Basic concepts learned young, are learned well.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[brianel027]

Hey Dave and John, thanks for the added suggestions. nitroboy, johnnyc and cnw - thanks for the support!
John, the "overrails" you refer to are still being made by someone as a Marx repro part. I've gotten them from The Train Tender (email: [e-mail]). Jeff Kane has been a pleasure to deal with. The items is on his parts list as MARX-49 and MARX-50 as Insulated Trip Rail. -49 is the long version at $4.00.

You can also make your own using a piece of slided foil from an aluminum cake baking tin. You would cut this as a very long "L" measuring about 1/4-inch wide, 8-inches long: at one end you would cut a section sticking out maybe 1/2 x 1/2 inches. I've found you can't solder to the cake tin, so I use this little stick out section to roll up and wrap my connection wire into. You adhere this "rail" to the track using Scotch 3M carpet tape.

I can't tell you guys how many practical uses I have found for using 3M carpet tape. I bought it years ago for one idea in mind, and now this is a "regular stock" item for my parts bin.

Believe me guys, I could totally double the size of this post with even more ideas. So I just keep adding them every so often as I go along.

As you all know, I'm pretty opinionated about growth of the hobby and related product. I've said things that could certainly be taken as "downers" when it comes to the state of the hobby and the marketing of it.

BUT I do try to put my money where my mouth is! This can be an expensive hobby, but it IS a fun hobby - and by having the fun and doing things yourself, you can make it more affordable. Ask yourself, what will the kids remember more... opening a box and putting a ready-made-building on the layout? Or making something yourself with dad... even putting together a kit and painting it yourself with the family.

Lionel once marketed trains with this idea of building a relationship between fathers and sons by doing things together with the trains. Just because Lionel has forgotten that idea, doesn't mean it still isn't a GREAT idea!

[Anonymous]

Wow - I never knew that there was so much to know about toy trains. Our 6-year-old is getting into trains and I think my husband needs to read all of this before getting started on laying out their track next weekend.
Also - we would like to take our son to see a setup all created and running - anyone have any ideas on how to go about finding one of these in our area?
I would like to thank everyone for their tips and tricks, especially brianel027 for coming up with the idea to consider us newbies - this shall truly prove to be very helpful. I am for sure to become a regular of this forum.
Thanks a million!
Marji LeBlond

[cnw1995]

I have saved these ideas for future use. Marji, I recommend using the Internet to search for model train clubs near your home - they usually have open houses that you can visit.

[spankybird]

Hi Marji

Welcome to the forum. [#welcome] What part of the country do you live in?

tom

[FJ and G]

Marji,

You can ask anything you like here and we will attempt to answer your questions.

[Anonymous]

I have a few ideas to throw in;

When my boys were little, I had a little 027 loop on a 3 by 5 ft. board. There was a switch to another track to drop off cars, but it was just as easy to leave a few tracks in the middle of the board to manually set cars off. Sort of a poor man's yard.

What the kid's really enjoyed was having a signal that was wired up to a switch. They could change it between red and green, and daddy had to stop and start the train when they changed the signal. They also like operating other accessories.

Later on, I had a larger board where we could have two loops of 042 and 054 track. This became a racetrack at times where we could race two trains or try to match speeds of both trains. Don't try this with 027 though.

The inner loop of that layout also had some switching that you could do on it. I had a very simple form of "block control" on it. One SPST switch was wired to select either the back part of the loop (when running the mainline train) or a spur track (that the switching loco was parked on). When the mainline train dropped off it's cars, it would run around, and then park on the back of the loop. Throw the switch, and the mainline train is dead, then would you bring out the switcher to do it's duties, and set out cars for the "next" train! I just love simple ideas.

Santa Fe Kent
"Whatsa BNSF?"

[FJ and G]

It is nice that we are getting a lot of helpful ideas, however, the reverse of the coin is that some of our greatest learning experiences come from our mistakes.

My first and foremost advice is to just go ahead and start building the layout. I guarantee you that you will derive a lot of satisfaction, misery, and education from the experience.

dav