Need some Brewery Help - UPDATE

[dbaker48]

Ok, I got this "smoking" brewery by MTH a little over a hear ago.  It is out of warranty and too big to ship back anyway.  The problem is it isn't smoking........

So, Opened it up, and thought there might have been a kink in the smoke tube.  Not so, ended up taking it a part.  Now the issue, that was done 6-8 months ago.  The smoke unit AND the internal lights have a 2 conductor connector that goes to the pc board.  I am uncertain which plug goes where.   Just writing this down, I got to think maybe it doesn't matter.  They both probably need 12-16 volts anyway.  So will  plug it in, turn it on and measure the voltage from the 2 connectors on the board to see if they are the same or not.   Maybe I don't have a problem.    I will return...............................

[Anonymous]

Don,

         Did you try blowing down into the smoke unit?  Maybe you have an air bubble blocking the hole.  Can you hear the fan running?

[ChiefEagles]

Don, try direct voltage with aligator clips.  I have one MTH smoke unit that smokes away.  Got 8 bridge rectifiers and still going strong.  Roy M says most MTH smoke units run on very low voltage.  Experiment and see.

[jefelectric]

Don, So what were the voltage readings?

[wrmcclellan]

Don, try direct voltage with aligator clips.  I have one MTH smoke unit that smokes away.  Got 8 bridge rectifiers and still going strong.  Roy M says most MTH smoke units run on very low voltage.  Experiment and see.

Oops. Be careful.  MTH accessories are powered differently from locos. And different vintage MTH locos (eg proto 1 vs proto 2) smoke units are powered differently.

I owe Chief some answers and have not had time the last few days to research.

Don  - power the accessory with the plugs disconnected and measure the power with an AC voltmeter on each connector on the PC board. No AC, then try DC and tell us what the readings are.

BTW - does the manual help on connector location?

[dbaker48]

<>BREWERY UPDATE:

Result: Smoke unit works, fan doesn't.  (Wiped out a C80 Xfmr in the process) 

Where I left off - Hey go measure the input voltage and then the ouput voltage coming off the PC board.  Ok, Now I had removed the connectors last fall sometime apparently, cause they were not connected.  The issue IS which connector is the input on the pc board?

The manual doesn't show anything other than the fact the smoke unit works best with 12-14 volts.  From the picture below, as you can see there are 2 molex board mount connectors.  Each one is keyed for polarity, but no indication as to input/output.  Sooooo..  I made a major assumption, based upon that IC setting inbetween the two connectors, and there is a + and - on the device, and the etch goes directly to the two contacts at the connector on top.  That this may be the input.  (Especially since the color of the wires and the keying of the connector would correspond to the markings on the IC.)  

Then of course the lower connector would be the output wires going to the smoke assembly.  Connected and applied voltage then measures accross the ouput pins.  15v in OK,  0v Out not OK. 

Then I thought well why not apply 14v to the smoke unit itself.  Did that, unit Smokes!!  Ok, thought I must have the input and output reversed.  Changed the connectors, and have  14v in OK,  14v Out OK.  And the unit heats up and smokes.

Now this assembly has a small fan that blows the smoke thru a tube and out the chimney.

The wires going to the fan motor, (bad picture below).

Measure voltage there, 0v.  Ok this is the problem.  Smoke being generated but accumulating inside the building only.  So, I have no idea what this motor's ratings are, and decide I would apply voltage directly to the contacts and increase the voltage slowly until to see what happens.  I'm thinking the pc board must be a voltage regulator circuit.  So off I go, and of course I over saturate it, and create a direct short across the variable field of the xformer.  Zap.  The transformer fan shuts down, and xfrmr output is now 0v.  So shut the xfrmr down to see if it will reset. And no luck.  So now it has a fixed output of 17v off both sides. Hmmmmm.

But, the smoke unit works.  Maybe, I will set a fire truck next to the unit and let it be a "Burning Brewery"

Last picture;

Nothing silkscreen or marked on back side of board either.

 

 

 

 

<>

[wrmcclellan]

Hello Don,

Well - sorry about the CW-80. It should have handled what you did to it.

The smoke unit takes AC in and puts DC out. You have been applying AC volts to DC points in the circuit which can be destructive to the DC parts.

The fan motor is a DC motor. When you put the CW-80 onto it, the motor does not turn and thus the motor looks like a short to the CW-80.

The IC you mention on the circuit is a fullwave bridge rectifier. Its purpose is to turn AC into rudimentary DC. The two squiggles (~) on the IC signify the AC input point. Thus in your photo, the lower right hand connector is the AC in. The upper right is the DC out, denoted by the + and - symbols. Anytime you see + and - symbols this means DC, not AC. AC can equal death for DC circuits.

You said you measured 14 volts out when you reversed the connectors, but you did not say if it was AC or DC. Your voltmeter should have a switch for measuring either AC or DC volts. So if you can validate that you are measuring 14 v DC on the upper right hand connector it would be helpful.

If the small pc board is OK, it sounds like your fan motor is shot.

You can test your fan motor with a DC power supply (like the one for your G gauge trains). You can connect the G gauge xfmr to the fan motor and slowly apply voltage starting at zero and see if the motor runs. If the motor runs the problem is with the PC board with the rectifier on it.

BTW - what are the other wires soldered to the board? What do they go to?

Regarding the CW-80 - I am unclear if Lionel repairs these things, but you can try. If it is toast, contact me separately.