Is there a book about the bottom of the line postwar Lionel?

[Santa Fe Kent]

I would buy a book on postwar 027 and starter stuff too....

 Is Kalmbach listening??

[BDT in Minnesota]

The yearly catalogs that Lionel has put out over the years have proven to be a good source for information for me...The various repair manuels and price guides enable a person to track down allot of models and their differences...There are various net sites that have good reference files on older lionel trains.  Then, on the forums, there are the rivet counting nuts like me that can't walk across the room without stepping over a Lionel train...the three dimensional views are dddeeeffinitely the best source...There also were uncataloged sets made for Sears, Wards, JC Pennys, and the like.. These sets can be somewhat difficult to find info on...Some of these companies used to publish a yearly toy catalog of their own....These catalogs are a good find....There are also some CDs available that have allot of information on them.....If all of this could be put into a multi-volume book,,,,I would be in hogg heaven....I would definitely be glued to that book...To properly research and publish such a book would be a massive undertaking...Myself, the more I learn, the more I realize there is to learn....

Wish I could refer you to a single book that tells it all,,,,,but I am at a loss on that one,,,,But doing the history and product research is one of the most rewarding parts of this hobby for me....BDT

[Jumijo]

Lee, are you related to Pom Fritz?

Jim

[phillyreading]

Most variations are listed in Greenberg's Price guide but it seems that Lionel had more variations than anybody could keep an accurate record of.  One example is the pre war 249E steam loco that I have with a 2225T tender(no whistle in tender) as Greenberg's Guide don't list that tender as being a possible issue item with the 249E in a set. The only tender possibilities listed have a three digit number not a four digit number, it could be possible that the tenders listed were sold as separate sale loco & tender and not listed as the tenders that were put into sets in the late 1930's or only the cataloged items made it into Greenberg's Price guide, this is only a guess at what really happened.

Lee Fritz

[brianel027]

DS, while there have been several articles in Classic Toy Trains over the years about these starter sets, it is a challenge to find information on complete sets. In reference to postwar Lionel, many starter sets were made specificially for retailers who carried Lionel products like Sears, Mont. Ward, and JC Penny. In many cases, the sets were put together from overstock items that were or had been in regular production. In some other cases, a car (or a variation of an existing car) might be specifically made for one set... the short 027 plug door box cars come to mind here. With sets made for department stores, sometimes you didn't know what exactly came in the set until you opened the box. I would imagine that concise records of these sets were not kept as they were low cost sets, and even during the postwar years, Lionel was doing all they could to cut costs to match the competition from MARX.

The MPC and Lionel modern era's are a little easier to figure out as far as low end sets are concerned. MPC cataloged a good many low end sets over their run, but most did follow along with their catalog illustrations. Maybe you got a GN 2-bay hopper instead of a red CN 2-bay hopper. But both cars were plentiful and widely available. There were a few sets made for K-Mart and for Toys-R-Us, but even these sets are more known of than some of the odd combinations of postwar set packages.

Variations can still happen today though. When I got back into the hobby, one of my early set purchases was a Lionel C&O Flyer Steam Set. It was cataloged with a yellow caboose with blue lettering. Mine came with a very unusal brown caboose with yellow lettering that I found out was a factory mistake. I sold the caboose and bought several more train sets with the money.

It would be an interesting read on the history of train sets. But unless someone was keeping accurate records as to what went into the sets, it would be a challenge to write any kind of authorative book. Even in these times of easy digital photography and computers, when K-Line was putting together their book many of the publication delays (remember, that book took YEARS to come out from when it was announced) were caused by trying to get photos and info on the very cars and items they had produced themselves, but didn't have photos of. So unless you talk to someone who worked the production line, or someone who collects a lot of K-Line you might not be aware of the variations of even modern 027 K-Line proudcts. For example the common short orange body/black lettering LNE gondola was also made with a red body and a very hard to find black body, both with white lettering. But not many realize that, should they even care. The very common short 027 blue B&O box car that came in many K-Line sets was also made with a yellow body that is quite hard to find. I had one of those years ago and made quite a bit of money on that one too.

[dsmith]

With all the books out there about the top of the line Lionel trains, I was wondering if there are any books available that glorifly the introductory sets of postwar Lionel?  It seems to me that all of the attention gets paid to the classic top of the line trains and the bottom of the line sets are almost always left out.  Yet I would bet that there are far more people who have memories of introductory sets than top of the line ones, and there interests have been ignored.  Any thoughts?