Can I save my 2466WX tender...?

[Jim Duda]

Success! The new wheels and axles did the trick! Put about 300 laps on it last night and ZERO uncouples or derailments! Spreading the sideplates was the hardest part - but everything went just as you folks told me it would. Should last me another 55 years...(wink)

Jim Duda

[SPFan]

Jim, You can "retighten" staple end trucks with super glue. You want to be careful removing the axles (after removing the couplers) but its hard not to further loosen the crimp in the staple and I doubt you want to spring for the official tool to tighten them again. After you have reassembled the wheels but before you reinstall the coupler plates clean the staple joint with brake clean or other low residue solvent, When the solvent dries clamp the sideframes together and place a drop of glue at the joint and they will be better than new.
Pete

[Jim Duda]

Mine are definitely staple end, guys! Thanks for the link above, Bob - I always wondered what the difference was between "Staple" and "Bar" end...now I feel pretty stupid because that's exactly how they look!!!

I'll be as gentle as a brain surgeon when I spread the sideframes, and thanks to you guys, my tender will go another 100,000 miles!

jd

[lionelsoni]

Either staple-end or bar-end, but definitely cast sideframes. (You need a side view to tell the difference. See http://www.postwarlionel.com/terms.html for links to pictures of both.)

I would put a 1/4-inch flat screwdriver tip between the wheel and the sideframe, just above the axle, and turn it carefully in the direction that moves the wheel down while spreading the wheel and sideframe apart. Stop when the end of the axle pops out of the bearing hole. Do the same end of each axle to this point, then pivot the coupler assembly, axles, and wheels out, sliding the freed ends of the axles out from behind the sideframe.

This is the only way I know to get them out. I suppose you could break the truck if you spread it more than absolutely necessary or if the sideframes are weak or already cracked. However, I have never had that happen. Nevertheless, please understand that you try this at your own risk.

[Jim Duda]

Thanks Bob - I just sent you an e-mail with a .jpg image attatched. I'm betting on staple end trucks. The vintage of this is 1948-1950. Were plastics invented that early...(wink)

jd

[Big_Boy_4005]

See where the truck is riveted to the chassis? Follow that piece of sheet metal to the sideframe. On the outside of the sideframe, near the top, it looks like a staple where it is attached. Two small prongs from the sheet metal have been bent over in that small slot in the sideframe. This was common practice for Loinel during the early post war era. These are actually known as "staple" trucks. That connection is permanent, like a rivet, it is a one time connection and usually can't be repaired if broken, but it can be tightened if loose. I wi***here was a way to get some photos to you, it might make it easier to explain, and easier for you to understand.

[lionelsoni]

There are two general schemes:

Cast-zinc sideframes were attached to a sheet-steel transom. The attachment was done one of two ways: "Staple-end" trucks had the tab at the end of the transom split and spread horizontally to lock the sideframe to the transom. "Bar-end" trucks had the top of the sideframe deformed into a slot in the tab.

"Scout trucks" originated with this short-lived low-cost product line. Sideframes and transom were one piece of sheet steel, with a plastic cosmetic sideframe attached to the outside of the steel. This scheme was later used for models in the regular product lines. It sounds like this might be what you have.

[Jim Duda]

I think the light just came on..."The thing that you call "the bottom of the truck frame is probably the coupler assembly that he mentioned. It is connected to the truck only by being crimped around the axles; so, if you get the axles out, it should come off too.."

This has the coil coupler (electromagnetic) if that makes any difference. I'm sure they are standard trucks.

Just out of curiosity, how are the truck sideplates retained to the truck frame. Is it by that clip/retainer device?

Thanks BB and Bob
jd

[lionelsoni]

Jim, I don't have anything here on that particular tender, but I suspect that Big Boy is right. I don't know of any (non-locomotive) trucks that don't release the axle just by spreading the sideframes apart. If you want, you can use a screwdriver between the wheel and one sideframe to pry it out. The thing that you call "the bottom of the truck frame" is probably the coupler assembly that he mentioned. It is connected to the truck only by being crimped around the axles; so, if you get the axles out, it should come off too.

I hope we are not leading you astray when you have some unusual kind of truck there. Why not compare it to a typical postwar freight-car truck to be sure we are talking about the same thing?

By the way, your wear may be wholly or in part on the axles. There is a little upset area near each end that keeps the wheels in gauge. Often this wears down and allows the wheels to get too close. I have never had an old Lionel wheel so badly worn that I couldn't fix a gauge problem just by putting washers onto the axle. I think that I have used #2 for postwar and #4 for the fatter prewar axles. You may have to force the washers on, but that is all to the good. (If you don't have any handy, let me know and I'll give you some.)

[Jim Duda]

I wish I could just spread the sideframes but the axle is captivated by the bottom of the truck frame which actually "wraps around" the axles. Actually, the sideframes appear to be held to the truck frames with a clip of some sort. Well...I''m not sure if it's a clip, but there are two very small tabs that are bent outward to retain the sideframe. I'm afraid of bending them straight out for fear of fracturing them.

I have Greenberg's Lionel '45 - '69 repair manual but the tenders don't seem to be covered...

Thanks guys,
jd

[Big_Boy_4005]

Jim, It is actually rather simple to change the wheels. Gently spread the side frames and the wheel sets should just drop out. The axels will be attached to the plate that holds the coupler and the sliding shoe. Find a junker car with good wheels, and reassemble the trucks.

I find it somewhat difficult to believe that the wheels are truly worn out. Sloppy fit on the axel is normal for that style of wheel, as it needs to spin freely. By squeezing the sideframes you may be able to tighten the fit enough to avoid this whole process, and solve the original problem. By the way, how is the crane ? Does it still uncouple on the switch? Does it have bad wheels too?

Roller replacement isn't too difficult, but there are many different styles of roller, and you need to have the right one. Even though its worn, it should still work. It is only used when you blow the whistle.

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

Yes, You can replace the trucks. Either with old ones or new ones. Look in the ads
in Classic Toy Trains for parts dealers. If you don't feel that you can replace them, find
a Lionel Repair Station. They can do the job, Might cost you a bit but it's worth the
effort. Also, a repair manual, either Greenberg's or K-Line's is worth the investment.
And I think CTT covered replacement of rollers. I am not sure which Issue.
Good Luck! Dr.Fu-Manchu, The Train Guy

[Jim Duda]

Further to my "phantom uncoupling" thread below...I can save my 2466 if I could just replace the wheels and axles...which simply have too much mileage on them and "wobble" to the point of slipping off the rails - especially over the O22s. A different tender with "tighter" wheels works perfectly.

So here are my questions:
1. How can the truck sideplate be removed? It seems to be held to the truck frame by a spring clip assembly of some sort. Or is this part of the truck frame with tabs on it that are bent outward? Seems that if I could remove just one of the sideplates I could simple slide the axles out and replace them and the wheels;
2. Since both pickup rollers have deep groves in them (the high mileage thing) I would like to replace them. How do you guys peen the roller axles? Do you need a special tool or do you just mushroom them with a tap from a peen hammer?
3. Are wheel/axles/rollers/ still avail or am I hosed? I'd sure like to save this if I can...

Thanks again,
Jim in Austin, TX