252 speed?

[dennyblock]

Just finished prewar 252 basket case four new wheels, idler gears, brush plate, an axle, and all trim. Tested it on the track this morning [see photo fun] and it dosen't run as fast as I expected. After ten minutes running it felt cool and didn't make much noise so I think its OK. Just wondering if prewar is slower than the postwar I'm used to?

[lionelsoni]

Prewar locomotives generally liked higher voltages than postwar and later, up around 25 volts.  Were you giving it that much?

[dennyblock]

I'm using a TW transformer, it is 18 yolts max. So my speed is probably about right because it's under powered.

[msacco]

Oh, man if anything prewar runs faster than postwar. Meaning they aren't very good slow runners. And Bob, with all due respect I have a couple of prewar locos and 25 volts would send them into the stratosphere.

    I would double check your motor and strip down and clean again. Can't be right.

 

Mike S.

[envfocus]

When it runs, does it run smoothly or does it "hiccup" at points (turns versus straight sections)?  If it does, then revisiting the motor is probably the way to go.  If its not "electrical", then another simple thing could be the wheels being placed to tightly against the frame.  Also, the roller pickups tend to get heavily oxidized and cleaning/replacing them has made a difference for me.  I do not have a 252, but I do run several 248s, 253, and 254 which have the same basic motor.   

[Anonymous]

I agree with the above statement. At that speed they jump the track and stick in the wall! Going to use a TPC and see if I can controll their low speed.The 252 can sure pull some car though.

[dennyblock]

It has new pickup rollers and the wheels are free to move sideways a little. When you shut down the power it coasts about 12 to 15 inches so nothing is binding. No sparks from underneith when running so it's making good contact with the rails. Runs very smooth and steady all around the track. When I say its slow I mean its nowhere fly off the rails fast, it is faster then say my new Plymouth switcher or my CP speeder but not as fast as my 1666 steemer. As I say its quiet and smooth, maybe it needs to break in? I did have it all apart and cleaned and lubed everything.

[envfocus]

You got me thinking, so I just ran some of my prewar cab-type engines at 18 volts.  All but one went off the track due to speed; however one is slower so there probably is some variability that leaves me thinking yours is OK, especially given your description above.  Since its not sparking, stalling, or getting hot I think that the armature winding and solder points are OK.  The wheels seem to be set correctly, so the last thing I would suggest that has resulted in increased speed is the commutator surface.  I use a pen eraser to bring it to a shine.  I also know some who use a very very fine grit sandpaper (#600) to bring the surface back.  Any oil on this will ruin it, so make sure its clean and shiny.  I assume that when you replaced the brush assembly that included putting new brushes in. If not, make sure they are flat and clean.  Just a small amount of film or crud on the commutator face can take away some speed.  Otherwise, I think its just decided to slow down a bit from its younger days and enjoy its new days at your home!

[Jumijo]

It could just be tight from the rebuild. Keep it well lubed and I'll bet as it breaks in, the speed will increase.

Jim 

[lionelsoni]

I didn't mean to suggest that a prewar locomotive would stay on the track if run light at 25 volts.  Traditional Lionel motors, including all prewar motors, are universal motors, whose speed depends on the load as well as the voltage.  Individual locomotives may have varied; but Lionel did make a point before the war of building transformers and voltage reducers that were generally capable of 25 volts.  The Z and V are examples whose production lapped over into the early postwar era.  One locomotive from before the war, the scale Hudson, also retained its high-voltage characteristics even in the 1960s version that I've got--It will run at 18 volts, but won't pull much of a load.

[dennyblock]

Yes it has new brushes and cleaned comutater surface. I've only run it about 20 minutes, how long should break in take? Towing cars or not? Thanks to all for taking time with me.

[envfocus]

I don't know of any "break in" time period.  I'd just have fun with it at this point.  It seems that its running fine, just slow.  If you ever have a chance to run it with 25 volts, that might prove interesting.  If you do notice a change in speed after running it awhile, let us know.  I'd be interested if there is some sort of "break in" time.  On a final note, the terra cotta/maroon color combination of your 252 looks great!

[dennyblock]

I FOUND IT the roller plate [leaf spring] is weak and not holding both rollers firmly on the center rail. Put a little ball of tissue paper under it and she ran at warp speed! Time for another call to George Tebolt Trains Don't tell the wife about the credit card bill Thanks for all the help guys                                                                                                      

[lionelsoni]

I'm glad you got it going--without having to get a new transformer!

[envfocus]

Great news.  Now the only problem will be what this forum will look like in 2077 because that's how long it will be until you have any other problems with your 252!  Love the prewar stuff!

[Jumijo]

I FOUND IT the roller plate [leaf spring] is weak and not holding both rollers firmly on the center rail. Put a little ball of tissue paper under it and she ran at warp speed! Time for another call to George Tebolt Trains Don't tell the wife about the credit card bill Thanks for all the help guys                                                                                                      

I knew it all along 

[dennyblock]

Do you think a wad of paper under the pickup is a permanent repair

[envfocus]

As long as the paper is prewar I guess its alright  

[arkady]

dennyblock

Just finished prewar 252 basket case" /> four new wheels, idler gears, brush plate, an axle, and all trim. Tested it on the track this morning [see photo fun] and it dosen't run as fast as I expected. After ten minutes running it felt cool and didn't make much noise so I think its OK. Just wondering if prewar is slower than the postwar I'm used to?

I'm resurrecting this thread after three years.  I found it after searching everywhere to discover why my own rebuilt (by me) 252 was running in such a slow and jerky way.

The problem was exactly as the original poster describes -- the bronze spring strips that carry the rollers were bent and weakened (and replacing them would be major surgery), keeping the rollers from making firm contact.  Instead of a wad of tissue paper, I stuffed a tiny piece of adhesive foam weatherstripping under each of the spring strips, and my 252 now flies!

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread three years ago for finally leading me to the answer.  Now my father's 252 will be able to haul its three passenger cars around the Christmas tree just as fast as it did in 1928!