Options for quieting down a plywood table...

[Jim Duda]

I'm almost ready to start my first "Hi-Rail" (scenic) attempt and have always heard either Homasote or extruded styrofoam (house insulation) are well proven. Are there any other options? I'd like to use as thin of material as I can (1" max) and white glue it to the BOTTOM of the 5/8 plywood.

I asked another forum member (lionelsoni) what to do if Lowe's or Home Depot here doesn't carry the above mentioned stuff. Here is his reply...

"Jim,
I use O27-profile track and screw it directly to 1/2" plywood. So I haven't changed from what I had as a kid. I guess that my tolerance for the rumble comes at least in part from nostalgia! It does occur to me that, since you are planning to put the plywood on the table, you might reduce the noise just as well or better by putting some padding, like a felt blanket, under the board. The reason for putting stuff under the track is to keep the noise from the plywood, which radiates it into the air. But a well-damped board won't radiate much of anything. Besides, it's a lot easier and protects the table too. If there is any usefulness to my suggestion, it would be a shame for others who could use it not to have it."

Any other success stories about using cheap and easy to work with materials for sound abatement?

I realize this topic has been covered ad nauseum but there might be other newbies like me that don't have magazines to consult.

Thanks in advance,
Jim Duda
Austin, TX

[lionelsoni]

Jim mentioned to me that, "I'm going to lay the board on the dining room table...with the wife's blessing, of course." This gave me the idea to try to combine dining-room-table protection with sound deadening.

[Jim Duda]

Oooops! Forgot to mention I got some Woodland Scenics 3/16" thick black foam trackbed...maybe that alone will negate the need for additional sound abatement??? But if I can find some cheap stuff for the board I'll use it just for insurance...
jd

[brianel027]

Jim, the next layout I build I plan to do using just styrofoam for the surface. I already have been brain-storming my methods and techniques. Just for your info, the PINK styrofoam is the strongest of the 3 types out there.
You also might try putting foam insultation tape below each metal tie (if your're using 027 or 0 tubular track). The TRACK SCREWS are what transmit the noise. If you ballast the track and use glue, when it dries, the glued ballast holds the track inplace and you can remove some screws. You might also consider using electric wire "Cable Ties." I've been using foam under the track ties for years, but both the foam and cable ties are covered in the current January 2004 Classic Toy Trains magazine.
Another idea is to use grooved insert dowels for constructing your table. You'll need to pre-drill holes and also use Franklin's or Elmers Wood Glue. (I also use the wood glue for gluing ballast instead of regular white glue). Again, the metal screws anywhere on the table help to transmit noise. You might also want to use wood glue or better yet, Liquid Nails to adhere a sheet of Homosote board to the top of your plywood.

brianel, Agent 027

[Anonymous]

I'm going to try the foam weather stripping applied to the bottom of each tie as outlined in the current issue of CTT.

When I statred this 4 x 8 layout I was hoping to use pink or blue foam board 2 - 3" thick in lieu of plywood. Alas the weather is mild enough in this area that they are not stocked, just flimsy 1/2 - 1" beaded styrofoam board.

Homosoate is unknown in this area as well. There is one indendent lumber yard in Houston that keeps a few sheets because they sell a few every year. In talking to them they have no idea why every so often someone comes in and buys a sheet.

May not be High Rail but I believe a dense tight weave comercial / industrial carpeting may work between the track and plywood. The low price green fake grass indoor outdoor carpet from Lowes does not really kill the sound but it does look pretty good. Gives the layout a somewhat senic look if your looking for an easy out.

Of course this is all just my opinion. I have hope for the weather strip idea.

[Jim Duda]

Mr. Crawford - I like the indoor outdoor carpeting idea! Could always RIT dye it to darken it, I think. I'm using the track with 18 plastic ties for ea. 10" section so that would be a lot of weatherstrip pieces...(wink). So, right now, a 5/8" ply with the rubberized indoor/outdoor carpeting is in first place...(I'll probably change my mind MANY times before next weekend.)
jd

(72 degrees in Austin today...got my fingers crossed for SNOW!!!)

[Big_Boy_4005]

I've tried Homosote before, and its just OK, not great. The foam may be a lot easier to work with especialy if you use a hot knife. One of the things that may cause the most noise, is the face that most benchwork has open cavities under the plywood. By cutting the plywood to fit only under the track and building the scenery on foam around it may work. I plan to try that very soon, as I am just beginning construction on my own layout.

[Anonymous]

Ive used the woodland scenics foam, Its quieted my trains a fair bit, but not as much as you might want.

[turbine682]

I'll be experimenting soon. The X-mas layout (sectional, on the floor) will have subroad bed consisting of 1/2" blue foam adhered to 1/4" oak plywood (all cut to fit curved, straight, and switches at minimum 4 1/8"). The roadbead consists of standard Midwest cork adhered to the foam.

At some point, I would like to reuse these sections on a permanent layout. The sections would be appropriately fastened to (probably 1/2") plywood subroad bed supported by cleats and risers. (See Kalmbach's "How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork"

At article in a past CTT mentioned that you should not screw track all the way through the plywood, i.e., screws transmit the noise as previously mentioned.

After ordering my cork on-line, I discovered my hobby store had the Woodland's foam roadbed. Could of got more foam roadbed for less than cork; however, once I received the cork, I was very pleased with the higher profile and the more "solid feel" to the product.. I'm assuming the combo of foam and cork will cut down on some of the noise, but half the fun of running post-war is the noise.

Good luck and happy railroading!

[Jim Duda]

I presume Homasote, foam, carpeting, jute, etc. when glued to the plywood, dampens it and causes it to vibrate less, thus diminishing the amount of radiated noise...which begs the question: Would track laid over the Woodland Scenics foam track bed which has been glued to the ply be louder than if the foam roadbed were glued to the foam and the plywood would be on the bottom? I feel more comfortable with the wood under the track, buildings, etc. simply because the screws "grip" the wood better. Do all of you guys ALWAYS keep the foam or other sound abating stuff on TOP of the board?

I'm learning a lot!

Jim Duda

[turbine682]

Hi Jim,

My answers to your questions are based on everything I've read and seen in all model railroading books.

Plywood goes underneath everything to provide support. The correct term for the plywood (or foam) is SUB-roadbed. When building a perm layout, the plywood is supported by the benchwork. In the case of cleats, (I think) screws run upward through the cleat into the bottom of the plywood.

Your Woodland foam or cork (which many used) is termed roadbed. Roadbed is placed on top of the SUB-roadbead. Notice that the outer edges of any roadbed is bevelled (sp?). This aids in ballasting the track, i.e., provides a nice angle from the rail.

White glue, certain adhesives, should certainly be strong enough to hold everything together.

Hope this helps

[Jim Duda]

Somebody stated that Lowe's sells "Soundboard", supposedly 1/2 in thick and looks like a Homasote clone...get this - $6.00 for a 4'X8' sheet. Too good to be true so hopefully this weekend I can check it out. If it looks OK I'll use a paint roller and apply some white glue or Titebond to the ply and the Soundboard. I plan on painting it with flat black latex paint and then glue the roadbed (Woodland Scenics foam with the bevelled edges) to it.

...but I'll probably change my mind in the next hour or so...(wink)

Thanks for the terminology lesson...gotta lot to learn!

Jim in Austin, TX

[Anonymous]

I though that the noise was a part of the excitement of Model Railroading. I would say the use of cork roadbed material under the track will dampen the sound

[Big_Boy_4005]

If you are running one or two trains a little noise is a not a real problem. Start running a lot of trains and it can become annoying. Also with the modern sound systems found on many of the newer trains, it would be nice to try to supress as much wheel and track noise as possible, so that you can better enjoy the sounds you paid extra to buy.

[Anonymous]

I just bought a section of "fatigue matting" at Lowes. It is grey hard rubber which I cut into slices to fit my track. It looks great and is a lot cheaper than cork or the roadbed they sell.