PLANNING NEW LAYOUT AND NEED INPUT

[Anonymous]

wow thats huge...cant wait to see it

[PostwarMan07]

Here is my latest draft of the layout Im planning.  I havent purchased the software to draw detailed plans yet, but I think this is ok for now to show you guys what Im looking to build.  The layout that is on the paper is 30 x 45 feet with an elevated loop that crosses the middle of the layout and goes another 15 feet to the right that isnt pictured (via tunnels "E" )  The tunnels marked "F" make a reverse loop under the classification yard.

I didn't mark accessories by number in this but I will list most of the ones I will have on the layout:

455 oil derrick, 38 water tower, 3462 milk car, 342/245 culvert loader and unloader, 3656 cattle car, 282 gantry crane, 456 coal ramp, 397 coal loader, 264 forklift platform, 116 station, 156 station platform, 364 lumber loader, 394 rotary beacon, 395 and 195 floodlight tower, 450 and 452 signal bridge, 153/163/363 block signal, 151 semaphore, 128 newsstand, and 70 yard light.

LINK TO LAYOUT:

http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x5/dallascowbys05/?action=view&current=map1.jpg

 

[lionelsoni]

If you want Magnetraction.

[PostwarMan07]

bob...so I would be better off with the tinplate gargraves?

Im kind of leaning towards the old ones seeing I have 2 already.  I agree on the new lionel switches.  I got one and it only gave me trouble.  Thankfully a few years ago my father and I took apart a lionel layout and got to keep close to 20 postwar 022 switches.  Some dont work so I swaped parts and now have about a dozen working switches.  I was thinking of using the O22s on my layout but they take up too much space, arent realistic, and Ive heard can give you trouble when used with gargraves track.

[phillyreading]

I would stay with the older ZW transformers as I like them better than the new ones, like others say just add some fast-acting fuses on the output side of the transformer.

As for track switches GarGraves and Ross switches can use the same switch motors. I use the DZ1000 and you can add accessories to the DZ1000 with the help of a DZ1008 or throw two switches at the same time with a DZ1008 added in.  Also Ross switches use Gargraves track pins so no need to switch track pins or use adapter pins.

This is personal opion; stay away from current production Lionel O gauge tubular switches.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

Lionel (and other) tubular track is tin-plated mild steel.  Stainless steel, although it contains iron, is usually not attracted by magnets and won't work with Magnetraction.

[PostwarMan07]

Thats a good point and will adjust my track plan accordingly.  I also was worried about running postwar engines on gargraves track.  I have been told that the magnetraction doesn't work that well on the non lionel track and the engines lose traction.  I want to run trains of atleast 15 cars up the mountain and without the benefit of the magnetraction that will be a problem.  Do you know if gargraves new phantom line with stainless steel will solve this problem (i think lionel track is stainless steel but could be wrong...)

[CSXect]

A helix does not have to be a circle....you can make one in an oval shape to flaten the grade a bit.

I have yet to build a permanet layout so have no experience with helixes other than on paper.

[PostwarMan07]

You and me think alike.  My plans call for a helix around a mountain.  My uncle pete had a really nice helix that I always wanted to be the center peice of my layout when I grew up.  So, the name of the mountain will be "mount peter".  As I said I dont have the house yet.... sadly the number one trait I will be looking for is a big and dry basement (30X60 feet).  If I can't get that, maybe ill do something similar to Chuck Brashers Standard Gauge layout that is in a finished attick above his extended garage.  The third option would be a separate building with heating and electricity.

All my plans and ideas are on paper.  I'm not very good at using the CAD like software for planning layouts and have been drawing layouts on paper for almost 15 years.  I'll try to get a plan put together for you guys by the end of the week so you can better understand what Im attempting to create.

[CSXect]

PWman7,

 

Where are you getting that much space for a layout? I once thought about moving to the country and having a building just for trains I am planing on using Gragraves track but are undecided about switches. My layout will have O gauge, S gauge and On30 loops. Like as has been posted before plans change many times before we actualy build and sometimes they change after construction has begone.

If you have that much space you probably could work in a helix to add a second deck and double the size of layout this could be good if you like long mainlines

[PostwarMan07]

wow, this has been a great group of responses so far.  thanks to all of you.

Boyd, thats a great idea using the pre made room diagrams.  Ive done a dozen revisions to my plan so far in the last 6 months with many more to come.  Unfortunatly, i dont have the house or room to know the demensions im working with.  Im hoping to find a rectangular (and dry!!!) 30 x 60 foot basement.  The main layout body will be 30 x 45 with a 30 x 15 lounging area that has a loop extend from the main layout and circle the lounge area along the wall.

Jim and poppy, thanks for the zw info.  I will be using a mix of postwar and modern conventional equiptment...so circuit breakers are a must along with volt and amp meters so i make sure my old zws arent being over worked.  I looked up prices of old and new ZWs and heres what I found: old ZWs are $1/ watt......new ZWs are $1.20/ watts.  But the old are in VeryGood/Excellent and the extra 20 cents for the new Zw gives you a mint product and a warranty.  So Im still stuck between old and new : (

Bob, heres the basic idea of my layout.  Its an around the wall layout with a double 300 foot main that will run 2 trains each, a branch with local industry, 2 overhead lines with cantinary that have 2 trains alternating on each for a total of 4, a trolly line, and large classification yard.  I plan on have each main run by its own zw, one zw for the overhead loops, 1 for the branch and its small yards, and the main yard and trolley on the other handles on the main line zws.  thats a toal of 9 trains and a trolley.

thanks again guys!!!

[mickey4479]

John W:

When you describe your layout as 1200 sq. ft., do you mean a perimeter layout against a basement wall for the most part in a room roughly 30 by 40 ft?  Or do you mean that your layout will have a table top surface of 1200 sq?  Sounds like an great project.  I echo the remarks about planning which I am sure you are doing.  One of the things that I did regarding scenery and display of a favorite scene was to really get detailed on the placement of that particular component, viewing opportunities and of course the geometry of the track plan.  Because I focused on PRR and like the scale steamers, I opted to use 072 curves as a minimum except for 2 or 3 short stub lines because I had some left over 036 switches.  I run my B6s on those areas.  If you are planning grades, fine, but if you can live with just putting different levels of track on the layout, you can save some space and a little challenge.  I have a basic single track main on my layout but if I could do it all over again I would probably have a double.  It sounds like you are planning at least a double.  Please post photos and keep us up to date. 

BTW I have 320 feet of track and run my steamers with a KW.  I have 14 gauge wire and grounds every so often and it works fine.  But I generally only run 2 locos at the same time. 

[poppyl]

Ideas and plans change often when you are designing a layout so I would second the suggestion for fast action in-line fuses on your old ZW's even if you think today that you will only run post-war.  They are a good idea for protecting any modern loco whether running conventional or CC at some time in the future.  It gives you options at very little cost.

Also don't forget your wiring.  Given your space available, at least 14 gauge with plenty of power drops should be used. 

Poppyl

  

[lionelsoni]

You can run 8 trains at a time with four of the original ZWs.  If your layout has that many loops, I can see it; but, with any switching complication, you will probably need as many operators as trains.  Do you really expect to have that many moving at a time? 

[jimhaleyscomet]

What are your feelings on the old ZWs vs New ZWs and are they worth the price difference???

2

-- John W. --

John, The new ZWs (when combined with TMCC) are worth it when you use a TMCC remote to make new can Beeps, K-line, Williams, Lionel Starter engines crawl.  However, I am not sure if that is what you need if you use all postwar locomotives.  As far as the cost just take the $ cost and divide by the number of watts and that will tell you the best deal.  The new ZW does have better circuit breakers but that can be overcome with additional circuit breakers on the old ZW's.    The key for you will be to get excellent rebuilt ZW's at a decent price.  

In conclusion it is harder to assure an old ZW is decent quality (I think someone here on the forum rebuilds and sells quality old ZW's). Still, a well rebuilt old ZW will run trains just fine at less than $1/watt! A well rebuilt old ZW will probably be more reliable than a new ZW (less stuff to go wrong) and is just as safe if you add external automotive style circuit breakers. 

That said, I prefer my new ZW / TMCC control option so I can run my conventional locomotives remotely. 

Jim H 

[Boyd]

For my layout I made a drawing of the train table area/room and made about 30 copies. I drew out I think 25 different plans before I settled on one that I started to build in early april. Its basically a 5x9 with an "L" section on the other side of the bed. I would make a drawing of your room and train table area or whatever is set in stone and then make many copies of it to draw out what you can think of. I think I was drawing out layouts for at least 2 months.

[pbjwilson]

Hey pbjwilson, have you ever seen stan roys layout...is he still out in glen view?

Only in a video, or was it a book? Dont know if hes still in Glenview or not.

 

[PostwarMan07]

thanks for the help guys.  I looked into the ross switches and i agree that they are the best quality.  I found brass add on switch lanterns (illuminated) for $15 on the ross site in the accessories section.  With the lanterns and motor each 0-54 switch would cost $95! ouch!!! That hurts seeing im looking at 60 switches according to my current plans.  I may have to cut out some switches, forget about the lanterns, or start a charity to pay for my track.

Hey pbjwilson, have you ever seen stan roys layout...is he still out in glen view?

[pbjwilson]

In the next few years I will be building a 1200 square foot lionel layout and want to make sure I have addressed all areas before I start building to reduce the speed bumps Ill run into along the way.  I have a general idea of my track plan and what I want on the layout, but have some concerns/issues that need to be solved before I start.

 -- John W. --

1200 square feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My house is just over 1200 square feet. Thats going to be a big layout.

[csxt30]

I have to say, make sure you get the new Gargraves switches with the new diecast points if you go with Gargraves. I also have never heard of many problems with Ross switches but I have heard of guys having problems with Gargraves switches. The extra cost may be benificial in the long run !! I use all Gargraves track & switches so far, but I would rather I had the Ross switches !

Thanks, John

[rtraincollector]

on the switch line look at gargraves scince your looking at there track which I think is great. the switches even come with the switch motors . Thats what I'm going to be looking at as I build my layout in about 6 months. (well start building lol)

[PostwarMan07]

In the next few years I will be building a 1200 square foot lionel layout and want to make sure I have addressed all areas before I start building to reduce the speed bumps Ill run into along the way.  I have a general idea of my track plan and what I want on the layout, but have some concerns/issues that need to be solved before I start.

 1) POWER AND CONTROL:  I am "old school" when it comes to this area.  I have postwar ZWs and want a big control panel a lot like the one from the 1949 lionel showroom layout.  I was planning on having 4 Postwar ZWs run the trains, and a few Z transformers to run the accessories and switches.  Lately I have had a few concerns about the reliability of these transformers and if they will be strong enough to run a lot of trains without a problem.  I am starting to be tempted by lionels new ZWs except for the not so tempting $500 price when I can get a good postwar ZW on ebay for $175.  What are your feelings on the old ZWs vs New ZWs and are they worth the price difference???

2) TRACK AND SWITCHES:  I plan on using gargraves flex track and want to use switches compatable to the gargraves track.  I always hear ross custom switches over and over but I have a few concerns.  I loved the Curtis Switches because they were cheaper and were more detailed with realistic lanterns and wood ties.  I cant tell if ross switch ties are plastic and I havent seen anything about lanterns as well.  Is Ross the only option or are there other products on the market compatable with gargraves, have hidden motors, wood ties, and realistic lanterns???

I need to know what Im going to use as a power supply and track before I start stocking up over the next few years.  Hope you guys can help.

-- John W. --