msacco wrote:Just would like to add to the excellent tips from Jaabat, that it's not just the roller that cause sparking. It's the pins. Once you remove the rollers get some emery cloth and buff the pins then rinse the pins with contact cleaner. Many times I've replaced just rollers and still had resistance. the pins must also be cleaned as well.Mike s.
Just would like to add to the excellent tips from Jaabat, that it's not just the roller that cause sparking. It's the pins. Once you remove the rollers get some emery cloth and buff the pins then rinse the pins with contact cleaner.
Many times I've replaced just rollers and still had resistance. the pins must also be cleaned as well.
Mike s.
Good point. I just replaced the entire collector assembly. That included rollers, pins, and spring loaded arms. Short money for a drastic improvement in operation (it was easier too).
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
lionel2 wrote:I believe its the insulation that goes bad on those 50 year old wires...and you have to keep all that power within the copper wires not escaping out of the wire...just looks cleaner with new wiring..thanks
Electrical power doesn't escape through insulation. It could be that some of your 50-year-old solder joints have deterriorated, but the only purpose insulation serves is to prevent shorts. Old wire will conduct just as well as new wire as long as the solder joints are good.
Incidentally, if you do have a problem with a wire shorting out due to the insulation going bad, de-solder one end, slide a piece of flexible plastic tube over the wire, then solder the loose end back.
jaabat, as usual, you make very good sense here. I am at work, but recall the rollers have that sort of cloudy gray look to them akin to the gray dullness of old tubular track. I am almost certain that they have some grooves.
RaleighTrainFan wrote:Thanks to all for these great comments.Jaabat, you raise another excellent point. This engine sparks A LOT. I have only one other PW engine (and it, a 44-tonner, is not similar to the Berk at all) and merely assumed that, like the ozone smell, that was a postwar thing.
Thanks to all for these great comments.
Jaabat, you raise another excellent point. This engine sparks A LOT. I have only one other PW engine (and it, a 44-tonner, is not similar to the Berk at all) and merely assumed that, like the ozone smell, that was a postwar thing.
Sparking is a symptom of resistence. In my 736's case, I cured that problem by cleaning and lubing it, and by installing new brushes and pickups. The total cost of new parts for my 736 was only $17.00. As you can see, it's not expensive to get your loco running well.
Lionel used to advocate a new set of pickup rollers whenever the loco was brought in for service. And now, some 50 years later, many of those rollers have grooves and/or surface imperfections. The importance of a new set of rollers is even more important, and will help in reducing the arcing sparking you see. Replace the rollers and brushes for starters, and give the engine a thorough cleaning and lube. If it still sparks and runs slow at higher voltages, you need to check the wiring for a bad/loose connection.
I tuned up my 736 Friday night. Before I did so, it took roughly 17-19 volts for it to move slowly and then it sparked excessively. I cleaned the comutator with an ink eraser and added new brushes after cleaning out the brush holders. Next, I sprayed the worm gear with CRC to disolve the old hardened grease, and cleaned the entire area with a pipe cleaner. I gave the gears a good dose of white litheum grease (Lubriplate). Before putting the shell back on, I oiled the armature shaft with a liberal amount of oil and tilted the loco back and forth so the oil would lube both ends of the shaft.
I oiled all the wheels and axles, then replaced the pick up assembly with a new unit. Now the loco moves smoothly and at a decent speed at 10 volts.
Bob Nelson
There is a good chance that your engine does not need anything more than very basic maintenace. the 726 Berkshire did not have any bearing by the commutator, so the commutator tends to stay clean. The brushholders screw out of the brushplate. I would remove to brush holders, and place a qtip moistened with contact cleaner to clean the commuator. (you can spin the armature by turning the gear with your finger). Do not press too hard. You do not want any cotton to get stuck in there. You can also clean out the brush holders with either a qtip or a pipe cleaner folded in half (wetted with contact cleaner). If the brush springs look OK, I would re-use them. Same goes for the brushes. The replacement springs always seem to hat the wrong tension, and replacement brushes wear greatly in quality.
If the old grease in the wells where the gears turn is harded, you can can it out with a #11 exacto knife/blade. Regrease with labelle #106 grease. There is a set of bronze bearings at the ends of the shaft that runs down the center of the loco. Those bearings will need a bit of oil. Each axle has two bearings. Each of those will need a bit of oil. (remember too much oil is just as bad as not enough).
Like the commutator, the e-unit on your loco is positioned in a location that makes it unlikely to pick up stray grease or oil, so there is a good chance that it will not require any service. E-unit parts should never be lubricatred
OK, I picked it up and ran it for a while yesterday. This 726 needs a trip to the shop for some TLC, I believe. The engine appears to lack power - it had trouble pulling a set of five PW cars at any kind of speed, even with my Williams 150 jacked up toward full power (on a 9X6 layout, so lack of power would not be an issue, I think; it runs all my other engines, PW and otherwise, quite well). And from what I've read the 726 is one of the more powerful PW pullers.
The engine makes a sort of groaning sound from time to time; perhaps that's the worm drive at work and perhaps requiring lubrication (it's a Lionel "Atomic" motor as most of you no doubt know)? I ran it forwards and backwards with just the tender for some period of time hoping things would improve, but no luck. It will RUN, but only with what seems excessive power, and the groaning noises are most worrying to me.
Any preliminary diagnosis or inspired guesses based on these admittedly sketchy facts would be welcomed. The engine appears to be from the exterior vantage point well lubricated. The smoke unit functions. The whistling tender (this is the 12-wheel version) sadly does not whistle. So, there is obviously some work to be done.
cwburful, your point is well taken. I would not consider doing any kind of upgrades to this engine given its history.
One other thing: I'd forgotten that there is some paint loss on the cowcatcher, so my memory failed me a bit on the pristine condition issue! Still looks very good though.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
What ever you, if you send your engine out, make certain to check the references of the repair person.
I have been told first hand stories of people never getting their item back, getting a different item back, or having a piece damaged though carelessness.
Also, you should be clear with the repair person as to whether modern replacement parts such as electronic e-units, or smoke units can be installed.
(The smoke bulb will not generate much smoke, but both original and reproduction bulbs are readily available. )
I would recommend against any "upgrades". Nice examples of 1946 versions of the 726 are difficult to find.
I do not know any of the repair folks mentioned in this thread, so the comment should not be taken as a warning against using anyone mentioned here.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
You're welcome RTF. Best of luck with that Berk! Please let us know how you make out with it.
jaabat wrote: Olsen's Toy Trains has the Greenberg/Lionel726 pages online. Go the library and you will see them.Olsen's Library direct link Jim
Olsen's Toy Trains has the Greenberg/Lionel726 pages online. Go the library and you will see them.
Olsen's Library direct link
Thank you, Jim. That is very useful information.
Exactly, dweimer and jabaat - you've hit the nail on the head. This is NOT the engine to experiment on. I can do that with my old 8310 engine from the seventies, which is not currently running.
thanks for the good advice and I would like to see comments from anyone else who is interested. I think Greenberg's is the place to start!
PS to dwiemer: belittling my abilities on this subject is completely appropriate.
Jim posted everything while I was typing my input. Even if you do not do the work yourself, I would still get the diagrams (get a copy of Greenberg's repair manual 1945-1969). This book has oil/greese instructions as well as hints during operation of most post war items. You will need to do routine maint. every so many hours of run time.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
I would first try a trusted repair person. I don't mean to belittle your abilities, but this is not the engine to "experiment" on. If you do want to handle this on your own, I would do the following:
1. get the diagrams for assembly
2. take digital photos during disassembly
3. Work in a CLEAN area where you have a good place to put the assorted screws and parts and not lose anything. (I have one of those magnetic bowls to keep parts.)
4. order new brushes and brush springs, this is the time to change them, while everything is apart.
5. for the commutator end of the armature, you can use a pencil eraser to clean the carbon build up.
6. do NOT put any oil or greese near the brushes.
7. DO oil bearings, axle ends, etc.
8. Do grease gears.
A lot of the built up crud inside the engine can be removed with lighter fluid and a old tooth brush. Be careful using any solvent around decals etc. as they can remove them. I know the guys here will add a lot to this, but I think this covers the basics.
dennis
I understand completely. Not only the family heritage aspect, but it being such a vintage engine in such good shape, I'd be careful of who I let service it as well.
jaabat wrote: The Chief could get that 726 cleaned, lubed, and running in no time. He got my dead 2056 running in less than 1/2 hour after it had sat in a wet basement for decades! Todd's is a good choice to have work done at. From what the Chief tells me, their repair guy really knows his stuff. Jim
The Chief could get that 726 cleaned, lubed, and running in no time. He got my dead 2056 running in less than 1/2 hour after it had sat in a wet basement for decades!
Todd's is a good choice to have work done at. From what the Chief tells me, their repair guy really knows his stuff.
Thank you! I am, as you might understand, VERY hesitant and protective about this engine, given its heritage. I could not face my dad if I inadvertantly did something to screw it up. Hence my need for expert counsel!
Re Todds, that is my thinking. Those guys know I am a mechanical moron and it's OK with them. Even when I ask them really, really stupid questions.
I should add that I am NOT a handyman type or someone with extensive or really even basic electrical or mechanical knowledge. I learned enough to wire my layout, but that is pretty much it. When one of my trains breaks, I take it to the shop. I just want to know WHAT needs to be done so that if I cannot do it on my own, I can ensure that whoever does is doing the right thing.
Special to the Chief: If you know of someone truly skilled with this engine in the Raleigh area, will you let me know? Obviously the guys at Todd's come to mind.
Well, the time is finally here. My father has finally agreed to pass his 726 Berk on to me. I've wanted to run this engine since I was six, and at age 40, I finally will (I've run it a couple of times at Christmas over the years).
With only about 3-5 short term exceptions, this engine has been stored since the 1950s. Its condition as far as scratches, etc. is absolutely pristine. I truly love this engine. But I need your help, gentlemen (and any ladies).
What do I need to do to this engine as far as lubrication and care to ensure that it stays as good for the next 50 years as it has for the last? HOW does one lubricate and clean the (distinctive) 1946 726 model?
I am certain the wise minds on this thread can help, and I beg your assistance.
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