Christmas Shopping

[Anonymous]

Anyone Noticed and large layouta accross the country? Seems like the Holidays are here in full force but the trains are not out as much. Anyone else seem to notice this?

Nathan

[cbq9911a]

Yes. Was at my local Toys R Us yesterday. Only one train set, and it was one section over from the sign that said "Trains". Target only had Thomas the Tank Engine.

[brianel027]

Unfortunately Nathan, it has been this way for quite some time. The golden postwar years of Lionel was the last time you saw train layouts in dpartment stores. There have been a scant few exceptions. I think Bloomingdales or Macy's in NYC had a window display train layout a year or two ago. Lionel MPC (when Lionel was affiliated with Parker Bros.) managed to have Lionel trains in K-Mart duing the 1970's... train sets, separate cars, track, accessories. I remember buying quite a few trains at K-Mart during that time.
The sad thing today, is not only do you not see the displays, but you don't even see trains, save for the budget low-quality battery trains for around the tree. This very topic has been discussed quite a bit on other train forums. For whatever reason, either on the fault of Lionel (and others) or on the chain department stores, you simply do not see trains for sale. I know years ago, maybe around 1994, K-Mart had a Lionel starter set. I went there to get one. While I was there, I started talking about Lionel trains to some lady. Before you know it, I had a small crowd and all their sets were sold then and there. The store manager noticed and walked over and thanked me.
Some will blame video games for the disinterest in trains. But there's an old addage in retailing - people won't buy what they can't see. If trains are not out there where the people shop, then people don't know they exist. I wear both Lionel and K-Line pins nearly constantly, and am still amazed how many people come up to me with the statement that "Lionel trains are not made anymore" or something to that effect. Sometimes people will strike up a conversation which inevitably turns to "well if the trains are still made, why don't I see them?" I always point folks in the direction of the local dealers if they show interest. And right now the small local dealers are really thre only way to introduce folks to the hobby and where you have a chance of seeing some kind of operating layout.
Retailing is decidely swinging towards the big-box discount stores. It was reported this week, Wal-Mart did a record amount of sales on the opening of the holiday buying season. For whatever reason, it's too bad you don't see Lionel trains there. Fortunately the novice or newcomer can certainly find Lionel trains for sale via the internet! Lionel's web site is certainly helpful for the newcomer. It's just not quite the same as it once was when you could see the trains running on a display layout. Which is why the train market today has been catering to the adult operators - those are the folks who remember the magic of being 8-years old and seeing one of those big display layouts - and have never forgotten, and continue to be the big spenders on trains. We adults who are already train buyers, don't have the need to see a display layout inorder to buy trains.
They say the train hobby is better than ever today: more choices, more technology, more options. This maybe so, but I don't know what that spells for the future since it appears to me the bulk of the train buyers today are grown adult men over 45. I'd be willing to bet that a good chunk of new train set sales are from bonafide train guys who are buying the set for a child, nephew or grandchild (I bought a set and have built a layout with my nephew).
Now we adults have to remember to not treat those new train set purchases as priceless collectibles and let the kids who have gotten a train set PLAY with the trains, just as we did when we were kids. You have to allow the kids to "touch" the trains while teaching the kids to maintain and care for them. Yep, a few might be broken along the way, just as in years past. But the fun of running trains and building a layout with your dad or grandpa (and the memories created) are what is really priceless [:)]!!

brianel

[Anonymous]

I for one am angry that the major stores have next to nothing when it comes to trains. Right now over here, the major department stores each have an HO set and one or two battery powered sets in stock. What's even more pathetic is that the Sears catalogue for Canada doesn't even have an HO set! All they've got is a battery powered Christmas set. I really wi***he O gauge manufacturers would get their sets out at places where the general public shops! I too have met people who thought that Lionel trains weren't made any more and one time someone visiting my house to see my layout asked me when they stopped making three rail track.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to go to WallMart, Toys R Us, or Target to buy trains from folks who don't know nothin' about 'em. Maybe they would be cheaper there but what sort of quality would you be getting?

I know some folks don't have a local Hobby or Train shop - but they're probably shoppin' ebay, anyway.

I love taking my 6-year-old son to my local Train Shop. (It's even O and Standard gauge only.) There's a cool layout to watch, check out TMCC and DCS, and test potential purchases. There are people there who actually KNOW about trains! They like trains, and they don't think I'm wierd. Well, they don't let on, anyway. ;>)

My guy charges me MSRP and often gives me a nice little cash discount. No shipping charges. Reasonable parking. They have nifty basic starter sets (maybe used, but look mint) with a die cast steamer for $99. They have a small but experienced repair facility. They have bulbs, extra track, etc., in stock! You'd have to be CRAZY to want to go to one of those big box stores. CRAZY I tells 'ya.

Why do people pine away for Wall Mart to get Lionel? PLEASE, PLEASE NEVER!

Support your local (or regional) Train Store! Look in the phone book for goodness' sake. Use Google. Ask around, ask this forum. Get in the car and drive.

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Old 2037

I can't imagine why anyone would want to go to WallMart, Toys R Us, or Target to buy trains from folks who don't know nothin' about 'em. Maybe they would be cheaper there but what sort of quality would you be getting?

I know some folks don't have a local Hobby or Train shop - but they're probably shoppin' ebay, anyway.Why do people pine away for Wall Mart to get Lionel? PLEASE, PLEASE NEVER!

Support your local (or regional) Train Store! Look in the phone book for goodness' sake. Use Google. Ask around, ask this forum. Get in the car and drive.

Excuse me?? Helllloooooo! Welcome to the 21st century: there aren't any "local" train stores, fella. There isn't a train store within 100 miles of me. However, there are 5 Walmarts within 25 miles, over 50 within 100. If the idea is to sell to people who aren't already train people, you gotta get the trains into the stores where the people are, and they are at Walmart.

[Buckeye Riveter]

I think it depends where you live as to the quantity of local train stores. My in-laws live in the east near Philly and there are many good train stores within a short drive and two are closer than Walmart. The nearest good train store in Indiana near my folks is at least 45 miles away and several Walmarts are much closer. And here in Buckeye Land there are several good stores, but it's the great one's that are the attraction and they are farther away.[^]

And yes, if you want to sell to people who are not already train people, I would put a set in Wallyworld and Target and G-Scale in the garden area at Home Deport/Lowes. (Remember, Walmart is just a Western Auto Store on steroids.) Now after saying that, I was in one of our local train stores today and a mom was buying her kid his first train at Christmas. The local store has a good reputation and is in a safe neighborhood. [:)]

[cnw1995]

Kay-Bee Toys is featuring a plastic (cheap) G scale Rio Grande set for $39. Toys R Us has a few v. cheap HO sets. Blain's Farm and Fleet has a few HO sets too. Hobby Lobby and HobbyTowne USA has a good choice of Lionel and HO sets

[Anonymous]

Our local Menards has two Lionel starter sets. The "Great Northern Glacier Route" and a steamer set. They retail for $119 and $139 respectively. Our local hobby shop carries very little in the way of "O" gauge, mostly 027 track, they do have alot of "HO" though. If you want any "O" they have to order it and you pay full MSRP. The closest stocked hobby shop in 75 miles away. Because of this lousy arrangment I buy most of my items off the internet. I understand supporting the local hobby shop, but if they wouldn't make an effort to carry even the basics then I will take my business elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I believe that the NYC Macy's store has a large MTH layout this year, any New Yorkers able to confirm that? Walmart, Lowes all need to atleast carry trains during the holidays, and not the all plastic cheapo stuff. Lowes should espicaly carry G scale in the garden dept with a layout set up in thier pond display. Unfortunatly we will probably never see it happen. Instead of spending millions on to many high end trains, how about a saturday morning TV ad featuring Lionel trains. The time is ripe to build on the polar express popularity.

[spankybird]

MTH is at Macy's, here is the link

http://www.mth-railking.com/newsdetail.asp?artid=198

and also n Miami, here is the link

http://www.mth-railking.com/newsdetail.asp?artid=201

and also at Grand Central Terminal, here is the link

http://www.mth-railking.com/newsdetail.asp?artid=203

tom

[Anonymous]

To the best of my knowledge, MTH is the only O gauge manufacturer making a concerted effort to expose the public to toy trains via operating displays in a number of diverse locations.

All of the manufacturers somewhat regularly "preach to the choir" via their assorted in-store dealer demos and sales, appearances at train shows, etc., but MTH alone is getting out to where the general public can see the trains and watch 'em do their thing. MTH may not have the familiar and long-standing brand name that Lionel has, but at least MTH is doing something to actively promote and expand the hobby during the all-important holiday season. Kudos to them for making the effort!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

To the best of my knowledge, MTH is the only O gauge manufacturer making a concerted effort to expose the public to toy trains via operating displays in a number of diverse locations.

All of the manufacturers somewhat regularly "preach to the choir" via their assorted in-store dealer demos and sales, appearances at train shows, etc., but MTH alone is getting out to where the general public can see the trains and watch 'em do their thing. MTH may not have the familiar and long-standing brand name that Lionel has, but at least MTH is doing something to actively promote and expand the hobby during the all-important holiday season. Kudos to them for making the effort!

At least one manufacturer is doing something right. I don't understand why Lionel is convinced that this type of exposure is beneath them. It is this type of action by MTH that is much more constructive, and potentially damaging to Lionel. Mike gets my full respect on this issue.[^]

[Anonymous]

I would say among "manufacturers" KLine is also trying to get in front of folks with the "Fall Fair Days."

But Lionel totally trumps all the other efforts by all other manufacturers by getting "The Polar Express." That's real marketing in the year 2004. I bet they paid out the wazoo...

Oh, and to the person who wrote: "Excuse me?? Helllloooooo! Welcome to the 21st century" - Yeah, sure. Hey, did 'ya know that you can buy trains over the internet now? With better quality and selection at similar prices than what you would pay at WallMart? WallMart knows this, which is why they don't carry quality toy trains...

WallMart is for toilet paper and other things that you are going to flush or throw away next week. Me, as if you couldn't tell, I don't like they way they do business, I won't even buy my toilet paper there. I do shop some big box stores, but I still don't want to get my trains there.

Yeah, I'm spoiled. I have lots of fantastic train stores within a 50 mile radius. I live 35mi from downtown Philly and 45 mi from Manhattan, in the great state of New Jersey where some of the greatest toy trains ever were made. It's one of the few advantages of living here - that and wonderful honest-to-goodness modern passenger train service. That still exists too.

I have also lived pretty far out in the country (Rockbridge County, VA), and would do so again, in heartbeat, with the knowledge that I could buy any sort of trains or supplies (or nearly anything else) right over the internet.
(Also provided I could make a decent living and have decent schools for my kids.) But I live in the suburbs and I support my local train store(s). Long may they run.

[railfanespee4449]

I'm making a t-shirt that says "ask me about my lionel train... then GET YOURS OUT OF THE CLOSET!!"
P.S.- It's not about us getting trains; it's about introducing others to the hobby. I plan to have a small layout on a card table outside and charge people a quarter a minute to run it. Last year, I used a HO set and made $6.00+ I will also have photocopies of the trainset pages in the Lionel catalog to hand out.
Also, I am within 45 min. from Red's train shop in colfax. If you watched The magic of Lionel trains, Part 2 you'll recognize that name.

[Anonymous]

Some stuff I say are about model train retailers in my area. And some other about toy trains.

I get my trains at The Hobby Shop in Aberdeen, New Jersey, they set up a train display at Fortuneoff in Woodbridge, they leased a space in Fortuneoff in Woodbridge Center selling a couple trains but at a larger price than at the Hobby Shop. The layouts at Woodbridge didn't really impress me that much, but I'll be off to the NYC Macy's saturday to Check out the MTH Layout there.

Does anyone remember The Great Train Store that was in some malls, they closed in 2000. I went to the one in Woodbridge. Right now the only other hobby shop that resides in a mall near me it Allied Hobbies in Freehold.


I think right now that MTH makes the best model trains. I do love Lionel Trains, but MTH sets are more affordable and better detailed than Lionel Trains. The President of MTH allways visits the Hobbyshop once a year, it's a great what MTH does for it's customers. The Hobby Shop is rated the number 1 Hobby Shop. My Hobby Shop is a great retailer.

Right now I have ONLY 2 fully accesable toy train retailers at one time I had 5, that says alot.

[CB_Fan]

HobbyTown USA was mentioned above, and we have one! They've just opened a new store in the Jubilee Mall in Daphne, Alabama, on the eastern shore of Mobile Bay. And they have Lionel trains -- no display layout yet, but the big orange and blue boxes of several different starter sets are prominently displayed in the front of the store. They also have track, structures and accessories, and a single (so far) Lionel Std. O flatcar, in addition to N, HO, On30 and G items for sale. Of course, their biggest interest is model airplanes -- the owner flew F-14s in the Navy. Oh, yes, they also have a lot of Thomas the Tank Engine.

I sent a note to some 100 local train club members and others interested in trains to tell them HobbyTown is here, and the monthly South West Alabama Railroad Modelers newsletter also announced it. And we've given a year's membership to one of the co-managers of the local store so they will see what we are doing. He called me and asked us to bring him a flyer which he will copy and give out to anyone interested in learning more about model railroading. We think this is a very positive sign, and plan to continue to cultivate this relationship.

[mpzpw3]

In my opinion, I'm glad to see that Wal-Mart and Target-type stores don't carry Lionel and other O-gauge trains. It seems that there are more problems with the modern-era trains than there were with postwar trains (perhaps just a perception on my part, but when you advertise a smoking engine, I want the engine to smoke!!), and the returns would probably be huge.
On the other hand, I don't understand why hardware stores would be a bad outlet for starter sets. Ace and True-Value stores come to mind. I used to work at a hardware store, and most of the people I worked with had the ability to troubleshoot almost anything at least a little bit, and at least we put a little effort into helping people (unlike the wal-mart-type stores).
The hard part is, except for us, Lionel IS THE NAME, that is recognized with toy trains. MTH and K-line are just reproductions of Lionel and aren't as good, the typical Joe Consumer might think. Again, in my opinion, it must be Lionel that should put the starter sets in stores. Hobby stores aren't enough. Using my local train store as an example, you can look at a lot of odd stuff made in 1999-2000 (the good stuff sold back then, and they don't restock. You can order something, at full retail, and you might get it, but I never have.)
Hopefully, with new management at Lionel, this problem will be addressed, and a new generation of O-gauge enthusiasts will keep the hobby alive. I got "hooked" in this hobby in the late 70's and early 80's when it was "dead", and I really think with proper marketing it could be done. The problem is, nowadays, will Dad still help with the layout? That may be the real problem...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brianel027
[ Now we adults have to remember to not treat those new train set purchases as priceless collectibles and let the kids who have gotten a train set PLAY with the trains, just as we did when we were kids. You have to allow the kids to "touch" the trains while teaching the kids to maintain and care for them. Yep, a few might be broken along the way, just as in years past. But the fun of running trains and building a layout with your dad or grandpa (and the memories created) are what is really priceless [:)]!!

brianel

Brianel: A very important point you made and a reminder that I needed. Thanks kindly!

[bogaziddy]

I have at least an hour's drive to get to the nearest train oriented hobby shop and that guy has a super layout in an adjoining building (albeit HO). I'd much rather shop there than to go to one of the big box stores even if it costs me more. I get better advice, better service and more variety from someone who loves trains and doesn't treat me as a some kind of a throwback to the 'Olden Days'.

Recently I had some warranty work done to a steam locomotive's sound card and that involved a 3 hour drive to Sacramento (Bruce's Train Shop) that store has operating layouts and a great selection of Lionel, MTH, K-Line etc. for three-railers.

Finally there's the internet for price shopping but watch out who you're dealing with as you can get the runaround with some dealers who make promises they can't keep.

The saddest thing about the dearth of operating layouts at the large retailers is the lack of exposure to the general public and how kids who might be interested in trains are missing out and are not even being given the exposure to a great hobby.

Remember that great window display scene in the movie "A Christmas Story" with Lionel trains wending their way through a snow covered landscape? Sadly, those days are probably gone forever. Blame it maybe on video games and consumer electronics, but let's not forget how that technology has enhanced the equipment available to us nowadays.

[cnw1995]

Dang and blast it - I know the details behind this and appreciate the notice - but I don't like the anxiety of getting a call from a hobby shop I've found in CTT saying something I 'need' in time for Christmas isn't in stock. Crossing my fingers...

[Anonymous]

I would bet that Lionel or MTH sets at lowes, or target would go over big around the holidays. Right now they seem to be out of sight out of mind to a large degree. Around here you have to make an effort to find them.

If you could get starter sets out in the stores we go to every day if only at the holidays you would get a lot of kids started in the hobby. Once they are hooked then they will get their parents out finding the specialty stores were all the accessories are.

[railfanespee4449]

I bought a Wisconson Central set at Menards to donate to charity. I tested it first. It has the features of a Pennsy Flyer, but was $140. One store had sold out !

[Anonymous]

I guess the majority of kids today get exposure from us hobbyists. If it were not for us hobbyists they would basically not get any exposure at all. Even the local ho and n layouts that used to set up in a local shopping mall are now setting up at a car dealership (being paid for it). However, the majority of people that see it there came there because they heard about it through a train store (already hobbists). Lionel and MTH need to take the bull by the horns and create new interest with kids through the media and some mass marketing.

Merry Christmas to All and a blessed new year.