David,
Have you tried either Ma & Pa Junction or the Williams website? May be easier to order Williams over the internet from a reliable source. I get most of my Williams from an independant dealer in Stuart FL that I met at a train show in Port St. Lucie FL.
I personally don't trust ebay anymore!!
Lee F.
Allan,
Although the question about "pre-order" was intended to be rhetorical, you get full marks for the answer, which (alas) agrees with many dictionaries, both online and off. I can almost accept it as a noun or in an adjectival form, but I balk at using it as a verb. I don't "pre-order" anything. Either order it or I don't; and I refuse to "pre-board" an airplane, as in "We will now pre-board people in wheelchairs." Does that mean ushering them onto a plane that hasn't been built yet? Whenever anyone tries to "pre-board" me, I take the train instead. Just try to imagine a self-respecting conductor crying "All pre-board?"
BF wrote: "While we're at it, will someone explain the difference between "pre-order" and "order"?" -------------
Sure thing, BF (even though you apparently don't often agree with me). Ouch!
"Pre-order," as the term is applied in the hobby, generally refers to ordering an item that has not yet been made. "Order" applies to anything else that is not sitting on the dealer's shelf or in the stockroom.
JusTrains offers very fast, FREE shipping on Williams products. They also have the lowest prices I've found. I've bought from them and highly recommend!
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I run my williams trains outside in snow, rain, sleet and sunshine
and my loco below is williams gp9
Davidvd59, Deputy,
I symphathize with both of you. If I had a local dealer who would not order for me I'd let Jerry Williams know about it. It is frustrating to get a big shiny catalog only to find that the item you want is not available. (By the way, I haven't received my new catalog yet....)
Some of the terminology is confusing. At their not-necessarily-current website (is anybody's?) Williams uses the terms "In Stock," "Back Order" and "Out of Stock." As I read it, Back Order means that Williams has ordered the item from it's Chinese supplier but when it will arrive remains a mystery; Out of Stock means that there are none even in the works and there may never be any more. You are welcome to your own interpretation, but that's mine.
In addition, the stock of a given dealer is subject to similar "rules." I've found that I have to ask whether Out of Stock refers to the dealer's stock only, or to the dealer and Williams central, or the entire Williams dealer network. If you really want something you may have to badger them, so to speak.
While we're at it, will someone explain the difference between "pre-order" and "order"?
I personally love Williams, although much of their rolling stock is too large for my needs. I prefer the size of Industrial Rail, for example. I doubt that many fanatical "Hi-Rail rivet counters" would be happy with a lot of Williams; and those who are looking for "prototypical horns" or elaborate sound systems will have to do without or make some modifications. For example, I pull a stand-alone RailSounds diecast tender behind my Williams steamer, and a RailSounds boxcar behind my Williams diesel. (I installed a microswitch to temporarily cutoff the built-in Williams horn and bell.)
Since the bulk of my "collection" is old Lionel postwar stuff I am delighted with the Williams "Golden Memories" series because I can replace some of my decrepit stuff inexpensively with brand new locomotives. I consider my trains to be toys, not models, and Williams fits the bill very well for me.
As to sources, I have to agree with Allan Miller on this one, as difficult as that is for me. I have also dealt directly with Williams. You pay a bit more, but sometimes there are advantages to going directly to the right end of the horse.
Hope this helps.
Allan makes a good point. Williams, more so than the other manufacturers, tends to produce the same locos in just about the same roadnames year in and year out. Examples include the GP-9's, F's, NW-2's, Hudsons, etc. So if you miss out on one year's delivery, you can usually get what you want the next year. I believe that the new deliveries arrive from overseas in the July/August timeframe and they start filling orders within a month or so after that.
Poppyl
Dave: I have a similar situation. Only I HAVE NO dealers in my area. So I am pretty much restricted to online dealers or E-Bay. And like you, I have been fairly lucky in getting what I need on E-Bay. Lionel actually made a green JC FM Trainmaster, but it is so expensive on E-Bay for what it is (no Trainsounds and old style motors) , that it's simply not worth what they charge for them. So i haunt E-Bay in the hopes a Williams FM will eventually pop up.
Dep
P.S. Here's a Lionel like what I need...
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-8687-Lionel-Jersey-Central-FM-Trainmaster_W0QQitemZ5939454157QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4147QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Virginian Railroad
TO BF Skinner
Dealers here in Wisconsin can't (won't) get me specific Williams engines, I have tried. I think my best bet would be e-bay, unless Williams themselves have an item in stock. It is very true that out of stock items have a major waiting period. I gave up listening to excuses from Wisconsin dealers, and order out of state. One thing about Wisconsin people, I can't doesn't necessary mean cannot it usually means will not! Yes I also subscribe when I can afford to with trains, see it now, buy it now, or see it again 10 years down the line!
There seem to be a misconception, both in this thread and the recent one about parts suppliers (specifically, about Olsen's) that these vendors are substantial brick-and-mortar enterprises. A few may be, but many are not. As I recall from my last catalog Williams mentioned that they only have seven employees. I know for a fact that at least one of their dealers has only one. Some of them have "real" jobs and "do trains" as a sideline. In such cases, a given individual may be a critical employee in the sense that if he or she goes off to York, gets sick, takes a vacation, gets backlogged, etc., things take a (temporary) nosedive. Last year, I heard that at one parts source an obviously critical employee had a baby and customer service may have suffered for a while. In addition, many of the actual manufacturers of both trains and parts are now overseas, as we all know; and availability is subject to the vagaries of international trade and shipping.
That said, I don't see any reason why folks living in Wisconsin* can't find a dealer who can supply what he and/or Williams has in stock, either at Williams in Columbia, MD, or at one of their dealers. For out-of-stock items there may be a considerable wait. In my experience they answer their phone.
Some items, previously cataloged, may be gone forever. This seems to be true of Lionel, MTH and probably all of the rest. In a sense, some catalogs often seem to be little more than trial balloons in that many quite fetching items are never actually produced. It is my impression that Lionel frequently doesn't actually make much of what they catalog until they accumulated sufficient "pre-orders." This can be an extremely disappointing way of doing business.
Some manufacturers have an item-locator function at their website which, while far from perfect, can be helpful. Most such websites also display a list of authorized dealers. If you don't have a dealer locally, see if you can get a peek at an example of a line at a train show. I would consider eBay as a last resort. Two dealers that I have recently visited seem not to have re-stocked after the big Christmas rush. I don't know what's going on, but I don't like it.
If I have learned anything in recent years it is that if you see something you like it, buy it now! It may be very hard to locate tomorrow.
Relatively recent Lionel catalogs often had a full-page photo of the "army" of employees at the Chesterfield, MI, plant. I wonder how many of them are still on the roster now that vitually all production has been moved overseas...?
* Wisconsin is still part of the Union, is it not? It was once a hotbed of toy train folks.
csxt30 wrote: http://www.mapajunction.com/Try here. They are well known for their Williams inventory.
http://www.mapajunction.com/
Try here. They are well known for their Williams inventory.
Thank you sir! But unfortunately, on backorder
Bought this Berk to redo for the Pennvalley.
Paul
Davidvd59 wrote:Yes Lee, I know but I would like to see one anyway, the gp doesn't do it. I do agree with the other person about the availibility of Williams trains, and I had to get mine on e-bay. They are hard for me to get ahold of here in Wisconsin also.
I have started to see more Williams for sale at the train shows in Central Ohio. In fact, last fall one dealer had several tables of new Williams. I hope the trend continues.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Regarding service, you can't beat the Willaims lifetime warranty. The E unit on a Hudson cooked itself for some unexplained reason. Since I had kept the box that it came in, I just reboxed the loco, enclosed a note explaining the problem, and sent it to Williams. Received it back within two weeks in good as new condition. All it cost me was shipping to Williams.
My only complaint with Williams is not the products themselves...they're great! It's the availability. Seems like every loco I want is always out of stock. I've been trying forever to get a Williams FM Trainmaster in Jersey Central green (FM103). I just checked again and the Williams website says out of stock. The other main retailer, York trains, also shows it out of stock.
Davidvd59,
You will have to settle for a more popular roadname in a Dash 9 if you want a Williams locomotive, the new catalog don't list a Canadian National.
jefelectric wrote:I have several and never had a problem. They don't have the details of Atlas, MTH and the Scale Lionel but that is either a positive or negative depending on what you are looking for.
Many times when I run the trains for visitors, the lights are dimmed in the train room so that they can see the lighted accessories and passenger cars. Needless to say, you can't see the lack of detail on the Williams Genesis until I turn up the room lights.
I bought B&O passenger cars (lionel 9000 seriers) and then got a deal on williams a-b-a sharknoose engine set the engine was way to big it turns out the engine was like scale size so I turned around and bought 6 B&O passenger cars from them there lighted with silouttes in them but there 17.75" long each there great. I also bought there remake of the lionel virginia rectifier set now all that is like it was back in the 50's and 60's its beautiful and I got a set that looks like what you would have to go out and drop big bucks for for about $350.00 (discount I receive from lhs as member of train club)
I'm very happy with williams items and plan to put lionel command and sound in the aba very soon.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
JTaylor801 wrote: Regarding scale.....How do the Williams locomotives rank on scale? Are they in line with Lionel's traditional size or more on the standard size?
Regarding scale.....
How do the Williams locomotives rank on scale? Are they in line with Lionel's traditional size or more on the standard size?
My AMTRAK Engine is supposedly scale. I know when it is with the scale MTH passenger cars it looks perfect. I think it may change from locomotive to locomotive.
jaabat wrote: I own several Williams locomtives. They are inexpensive, but they are built well with all metal gears. They are extremely reliable, smooth runners that will pull almost anything you put behind them. The decoration (paint and graphics) is first rate. I think they are an incredible deal for the money. The Trueblast II sounds are ok, but truthfully, I'd prefer either an air whistle option for the steamers or an electronic horn like in the old post war diesels.Jim
I own several Williams locomtives. They are inexpensive, but they are built well with all metal gears. They are extremely reliable, smooth runners that will pull almost anything you put behind them. The decoration (paint and graphics) is first rate. I think they are an incredible deal for the money. The Trueblast II sounds are ok, but truthfully, I'd prefer either an air whistle option for the steamers or an electronic horn like in the old post war diesels.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month