God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Chief,
After the recent meltdown of this K-Line cabin I question whether the smoke generator can be safely operated for any length of time. I've only just aquired and hooked up TMCC to my layout and this was the result of using the smoker for less than a week. I'll admit there were times when the cabin sat idle on track receiving 18 volts so the lack of air movement might have hastened the meltdown. It's obvious these conditions are too much for the smoke generator to handle since it no longer works at all. It performed perfectly under conventional control. If I was ever to use another smoking caboose I'd prop open the doors ( they open on the N5c ) for better air circulation and even then, only switch on the smoke for short periods of time. There's also the electronic upgrade alternatives that John (jefelectric ) and others have mentioned.
Kinda hard to see the body damage but it's directly around and under the chimney. Of course the smoke generator has failed completely.
Bruce Webster
P.S. Gonna do an autopsy to see if the smoker is a permanent gonner. Will check back with the results
Chief, I believe these need some kind of device (resistor?) from Electric railway, or one of the other ones. Apparently, they can't handle the sustained high voltage. How do you like the looks of your new addition? I have a few more "Congratulations" messages and am awaiting UPS to deliver. I also have a bid on a "Wabash Hudson" from MTH on the bay.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Well, no big surprise here. The K-Line smoke generator is dead. The temps must have been high enough to fry the resistance wire within the heating element. Both wires leading to the element were still intact. Some of the coating on the element has flaked off. The heat was extreme enough to melt the well in which the the element and fibreglass wool resides. Also, some of the plastic interior details melted, especially a thin closet partition.
In retrospect, it's good the unit failed as quickly as it did, before it rendered the caboose into a puddle of plastic. This will make an interesting project some day if I ever decide to install new workings. When you're dealt lemons....blah blah blah!
I don't know if you bought the same model but if so be careful when handling it from the sides. The porthole windows break loose easily so if at all possible avoid putting pressure on them. I've already had mine apart ( prior to the autopsy ) to reglue the windows back in place. The excellent details sold me on this K-Line but some of them are too darn fragile.
Chief, I have the CB&Q version. When I bought it there was a lot of talk about melt-downs so I contacted K-Line. They informed me that there should be no problem operating it in the TMCC environ. Not wanting to take a chance I haven't used the smoke feature. Ditto for a Lionel caboose I also have.
Though, we have a Lionel on the layout at work that's been there since Lionel's issued theirs and it shows no signs of problems.
Caboose electrical failures in the constant 18v Command Control environment are a concern.
There needs to be an article in Classic Toy Trains on how to rework the electrical and electronics in all the Cabooses made by Lionel, K-Line, MTH, and Weaver to be sure that the lights and smoke units do not burn up. Replacement parts list is a must.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
I just picked up from Radio Shack several Voltage Regulators. (Part# 276-1771) The one I have states that it is 12VDC (1 Amp) The unit has 3 pins (input, output, & gnd). The back of the carton states that it will take up to 35V. I am thinking that I could install this in between the power wire to the smoke unit and send an extra wire to ground.
Any thoughts or suggestions. I think these cost under $2.
Thanks!
David
Andrew Falconer wrote: Caboose electrical failures in the constant 18v Command Control environment are a concern.There needs to be an article in Classic Toy Trains on how to rework the electrical and electronics in all the Cabooses made by Lionel, K-Line, MTH, and Weaver to be sure that the lights and smoke units do not burn up. Replacement parts list is a must.Andrew
Bob Nelson
Bob, bet you have a fix.
Chief, Bruce, others with the K-Line caboose. I read a thread about this some time ago and K-Line did have a problem with the glue that they used to install the windows in a run of these caboose(s). I believe they just reglued them. I would not be too concerned about touching the sides for as was the case, if the glue fails, eventually, the windows would fall out regardless of normal touch/wear. So, if it fails, re-glue. I wish I could recall what type of glue they used, but I am sure you can figure it out.
dwiemer wrote: Chief, Bruce, others with the K-Line caboose. I read a thread about this some time ago and K-Line did have a problem with the glue that they used to install the windows in a run of these caboose(s). I believe they just reglued them. I would not be too concerned about touching the sides for as was the case, if the glue fails, eventually, the windows would fall out regardless of normal touch/wear. So, if it fails, re-glue. I wish I could recall what type of glue they used, but I am sure you can figure it out.Dennis
Dennis,
The thin wipe of glue I noticed on the porthole edges didn't seem sufficient enough to grab the plastic body. Couple this with the body paint on the inside window edges (which has been factory scraped off but not well enough ) and the end result is poor adhesion. With a little extra prep I reglued these on using good old regular plastic model cement. It seems to have held up to my ham handed 2nd disassembly during the smoke unit inspection.
It's so easy to accidentally handle the body in just the wrong place when trying to disassemble/assemble it. It's a bit of a juggling act holding the vertical end railings away from the roof while trying to dislodge or install the body to the base. In no time you find you've popped out a porthole or two by a well intentioned but misplaced thumb or finger.
CSXect wrote:I would suggest a bridge rectifier a small electrolitic capacitor a voltage regulator in a simple power supply circuit. This should work but no smoke with power at anything under the voltage regulators output example if you use a 12 volt regulator and track power is at 10 you maynot get enough power out of circuit to engauge the smoke unit.
CSXect,
Where would I attach the small electrolitic capacitor? I was thinking that I could intercept the power wire to the smoke unit and insert the bridge rectifier and connect the voltage regulator to that (both are three prong). The legs would be shortened and shrinkwraped to prevent a short circuit. This mod would only work when operating under TMCC or DCS since a switch was not included.
Bruce - I have that exact same caboose. It never smoked well, so I turned off the unit after a couple of runs. I also had the same problem with the windows on the top and the portholes popping out. It was a major feat getting the body off and the windows back in and properly aligned. Glad to see this post - think I'll keep the smoke switch in the OFF position!
Lisa
David, the input circuit to the bridge rectifier comes from the pickup and the wheels. You must interrupt both sides of the circuit to the smoke generator. If the side of the circuit from the wheels comes through the caboose's frame and the mounting of the generator, you will have to insulate the generator from the frame. In any case, the ~ terminals of the bridge rectifier connect to whatever the generator was connected to.
The electrolytic capacitor connects to the + and - output terminals of the rectifier, observing the polarity markings. Often only the - terminal is marked. The capacitor should be rated at at least 25 volts. Not knowing what current the generator draws, I can't tell you how much capacitance you will need.
The input terminal of the regulator (which should also be rated for 25 volts input) goes to the + terminals of the rectifier and capacitor. The common terminal of the regulator goes to the - terminals of the rectifier and capacitor. The smoke generator connects to the regulator's output terminal and the - terminals of the rectifier and capacitor.
I can't recommend this arrangement, since I don't know what is in the smoke generator, whether it can be operated on DC, nor, if it can, what a suitable DC voltage for it is.
lionelsoni wrote: I can't recommend this arrangement, since I don't know what is in the smoke generator, whether it can be operated on DC, nor, if it can, what a suitable DC voltage for it is.
I won't swear to it but the heating element is basicly a resistive device and should heat up dc or ac.
come to think of it you probably dont need a a rectifier and voltage regulator, but instead a simple voltage divider circuit but you need to know the resistance of the smoke unit to figure what resistor you need. Hmmmmm
No fan?
A simple series resistor will reduce the voltage from 18 volts, but also from any lower voltage when running conventionally. Which gets us back to a switch.
Lisa-n-NC wrote: Bruce - I have that exact same caboose. It never smoked well, so I turned off the unit after a couple of runs. I also had the same problem with the windows on the top and the portholes popping out. It was a major feat getting the body off and the windows back in and properly aligned. Glad to see this post - think I'll keep the smoke switch in the OFF position!Lisa
Lisa,
I really had no issues with the smoke unit when running under conventional control for 2 months. The smoke emitted wasn't spectacular since there's nothing pushing it out like the puffer mechanism in an engine. The natural draw from air passing by the chimney openings ( when the caboose is moving ) is what pulls the smoke from inside. I seldom race my equipment so there was rarely sufficient electical current going to the caboose to generate much heat nor air draw. That changed with full time 18V using TMCC.
When the time comes I think I'll experiment with a fan driven smoke unit in connection with the resistors others have mentioned. The goal would be to keep everything working at lower smoke eliment temperatures and slow fan speed, effectively avoiding heat buildup inside the caboose while preventing eliment burnout.
One question though, Lisa....how long did it take you to find a phillips screwdriver that fit the holes to remove the body?
brwebster wrote: One question though, Lisa....how long did it take you to find a phillips screwdriver that fit the holes to remove the body? Bruce Webster
Thank you, Bruce!!!! I appreciate you taking my place as Lisa's target.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
lionelsoni wrote: No fan?A simple series resistor will reduce the voltage from 18 volts, but also from any lower voltage when running conventionally. Which gets us back to a switch.
adding the switch would be no problem at all you would need a spdt switch and a resister, so all we need is for some one to measure the current from the smoke unit and use ohms law to figure out the resistance
Buckeye Riveter wrote: brwebster wrote: One question though, Lisa....how long did it take you to find a phillips screwdriver that fit the holes to remove the body? Bruce WebsterThank you, Bruce!!!! I appreciate you taking my place as Lisa's target.
Buckeye,
I asked the question because finding the exact size phillips to access the burried K-Line body mount screws is near impossible. I certainly hope my wording didn't offend in a way that I can't understand. It was not my intention. Just in case though, I'm keeping my head down
Bruce (The Nawthun Nawthuner) Webster
brwebster wrote: One question though, Lisa....how long did it take you to find a phillips screwdriver that fit the holes to remove the body?
Luckily, my hubby has a set of very small straight and phillips - only as long as it took me to FIND them in all his junk!
Bruce - Pay no attention to Buckeye - have no idea what he's yakking about - guess he had too many EASTER EGGS!!
Shush-up Buckeye - we're trying to have an INTELLIGENT conversation!
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