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K-Line reference Manual vs Greenberg Manual

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  • Member since
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  • From: Carmel, NY
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Posted by ezmike on Friday, April 6, 2007 10:25 PM

GP,

 You've done more than you can imagine. I have the Greenberg book and so far it has suited me well. I'll save the $45 and spend it on another piece of stock or accessory. thanks for your input and thanks to the rest as well.

 Mike

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Posted by GPJ68 on Friday, April 6, 2007 9:33 PM

Both books claim to be based on the original Lionel Service Manual and supplemented with operating instructions and booklets originally supplied wih Lionel products.  Both books also state that comprehensive parts lists and other dated material from the original Service Manual are not included.  While the two books are mostly identical, each book has at least some additional info on different stuff that the other lacks.  Unless you can find someone who's done an intense page-by-page (that's 730+ pages....) of the two, you'll never know exactly what all the differences are.  For me, spending $20 at the time (when I already had the Greenberg book)was worth it for the K-Line book  - it's now the book I go to first because so far it's covered what I needed for the models I have a little more completely (in some cases) than the Greenberg book.   But I won't get rid of the Greenberg book because it might contain something extra I'll need down the road that the K-Line lacks.

As examples, I recently picked up a 3454 Merchandise Car from a local train meet.  Greenberg doesn't list or describe it at all, while K-Line lists it and two other Merchandise Cars (3854 and 3814), but only provides the operating instructions for the cars, no exploded parts diagrams or troubleshooting tips.   Neither book lists my 1666 locomotives in the Table of Contents, but the K-Line shows it in a separate "Development of Lionel Locomotives" chart, and also lists it in a cross reference listing of Lionel e-unit #'s and the models they were used in (Neither chart appears in the Greenberg book).  The e-unit and smoke unit sections in both books are identical page-for-page (except for the additional e-unit cross ref listing in the K-Line).  The Greenberg lists and describes several more transformer models than the K-Line.  However K-line includes what looks like 6 additional pages of operating instructions for the ZW that Greenberg lacks.

Only you can decide if the K-Line book is worth $45 to duplicate much of what you already have in the Greenberg book.  If you can look the K-Line book over first, compare the descriptions of some of the models and accessories you have or would like to get down the road.  If the K-Line has more detail on those specific items, then you'll likely want to pick it up.  $45 is a little less than the current going rate (plus shipping) on ebay for the K-Line or Aurotech versions.

If I didn't have either book and was offered a choice of only one or the other, I'd choose the K-Line.  Personally though, I'm glad I've got both.  That's the best I can help for now.

 

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Posted by ezmike on Friday, April 6, 2007 6:31 PM

So there is no right answer. I guess the price is because it is his last one and he's not going to have more. What to do???

Thanks

  • Member since
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  • From: Ft. Knox, KY
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Posted by GPJ68 on Friday, April 6, 2007 5:10 PM

I have both the hardcover Greenberg book (1978, 736 pgs) and the K-Line book (2000 printing of 1982 reprint, 732 pgs), and while the majority of pages appear to be identical (except for being a few/several page #'s off), the K-Line book generally seems to have more detailed info on some models and accessories than the Greenberg book.  It looks like K-Line included many reprints of operating instructions along with service info.  There are also a few additional charts and general maintenance pages in the K-Line book.   Just going by the page count for some of the sections, there must be some models/variations covered by Greenberg that don't appear in K-Line - I just haven't run into them yet.  Usually, the K-Line book is the one I reach for first - the Greenberg is there for back-up.  The K-Line book is also a little better organized IMHO - although it closely follows the same section layout as Greenberg, Greenberg split some info on a few models into different sections entirely.

Actually, I suppose the K-Line book should really be referred to as the Aurotech book - that's who originally copyrighted it in 1978, and K-Line first reprinted it in 1982 (according to the title/copyright page prior to the Table of Contents).   Both "by K-Line" and "by Aurotech" versions can be found on ebay. 

While I prefer the K-Line/Aurotech version, I like having both.   $45 is more than twice what I paid for mine, but is less than what they've been selling for on ebay lately ($47 to almost $60 plus shipping).

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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, April 6, 2007 4:54 PM

The first hardbound reprint was done by Aurotec. I beleive the Kline book is exactly the same.

The Autotec book excluded all the parts list pages.

One of my friends identified over 2,000 different service manual pages. Over time Lionel issued updated replacements for many pages. So how does one define complete?

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Posted by ezmike on Friday, April 6, 2007 8:26 AM

I know someone who has the K-Line Reference Manual for sale, his last copy. I understand it is out of print. He tells me that it contains information, diagrams, parts lists, etc that the Greenburg book on post-war Lionel doesn't have. I believe he said it was a "direct re-print' in book form of the complete Lionel service manual. Asking price $45.

I have the Greenburg book, I do not intend at this time to become a service center but I would like to be able to make minor repairs, maintenance, assembly & hook up of accessories that do not have their instructions, etc.

What do you think?

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Posted by Bob Keller on Friday, April 6, 2007 7:53 AM
I believe both the Greenburg and K-Line books use the same source material. Neither volume is as complete as the (out-of-print) four-volume postwar repair manual.

Bob Keller

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 6, 2007 7:14 AM
I have both versions of the Lionel Postwar Book (K-Line was blue and hard covered, Greensburg is green and soft bound).

My copy of the K-Line version is mis-bound (back cover is 1/2 inch shorter than the front and the front is 1/2 inch too long - makes it fun to keep it open to the correct page!), but the Greensburg manual is missing pages or ENTIRE sections on opperating cars.

The K-Line books are VERY, VERY, VERY hard to find and that is why I didn't send mine back.  The Greensburg manuals are still in print and can be found on Barnes and Noble and Amazon.

I am trying to find a way to scan the K-Line book without taking it appart and still get 100% page coverage, then I can put it in a PDF and have it forever...

Brent
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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, April 6, 2007 5:21 AM

Is the Greenberg book hard covered?

I am under the impression that the exact same book (small format, hard covered) was published by all three companies over time.

Greenburg also published a four volume, soft covered, large format edition of the service manual. It is more complete, having parts lists and such (deleted from the small manuals)

Greenburg also published a version of the Modern Era service manual (black 3-ring binders).

Finally, there are several other soft covered Greenberg books.

I have both original Lionel manuals, the hardcovered book, and the modern era manuals. It is rare that I need to refer to the original Lionel manuals. I use the hardcovered reprint, and the modern era manuals. (Original Lionel Modern Era manuals have red 3-ring binders).

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Posted by alton6 on Thursday, April 5, 2007 11:35 PM

There is a Greenberg K-Line guide?  I have a copy of the K-Line book.  It is the first of it's kind as far as I know.  If you are a K-Line fan, I would recommend it for sure.  I covers, briefly in text and photos, a product line a LOT bigger than most people would think.

Commentary is somewhat sparse, to my taste, but it is certainly a useful reference.

Carl

Old Lookout Junction. Another one gone, but not forgotten.
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K-Line reference Manual vs Greenberg Manual
Posted by ezmike on Thursday, April 5, 2007 11:04 PM
Anyone have an opinion as to which is better or more useful?

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