Someone posted on the other forum that the Lionel Christmas catalog is out and at the dealers. I have checked Lionel's website but it is not on there yet. Has anyone seen it? I was just wondering what was new.
TomS
I called our local hobby store yesterday - they said not yet.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Doug,
The information was posted by Charlie from Nassau Hobby Center. It will be interesting to see what's there. The talk is that there is a sounds tender on the P.E. but no one is sure what it says yet. The price should be interesting!
No insult intened Tom, but I for one can wait. There's more than enough offered in the current Lionel and K-Lionel catalogs that hasn't even been shipped yet. On a practical level, I don't think a CHRISTmas catalog should come out until early fall. Of course, the way the market is with hobbiests never quite being content with all that is available, all the companies like to place little leaks and hints of what is to come.
But then again take the Legacy fiasco with Lionel actually placing ads says the system is here, leading folks to believe it was ready and soon to be available. And then the unprecidented personal announcement from Neil Young himself explaining why the system is not ready. Who knows if it'll even be ready for YORK, though I'm sure Creative Trains and Lioneltech is quietly aiming for this. And then the bigger question of if Legacy can possibly sell in the quantities to pay for its' development and make a return? Of course, the answer is a resounding NO on it's own merit. Lionel NEEDS buyers like me (and many others) to help pay for the products I will never buy.
I do agree it is always interesting to see Lionel's new MSRP prices. Though it hardly comes as any surprise they are usually higher than the last catalog. But until Lionel stops pouring so much investment/tooling dollars into high end products and electronics than cannot possibly sell in quantities needed to make money to pay for all their investement, I think we can fully expect to see continual price increases on the "toy" trains where there is little (or minimal on a comparison) development/tooling costs and actually sell in quantities that can turn a profit.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
brianel,
I always enjoy reading your posts about us traditional guys.
I think Lionel is damned if they do and damned if they don't though. As the market leader and the legend in 3 rail they have no choice but to keep up and exceed with whatever Mike W. comes up with.
The name brings so many benefits to them but it's also a burden. I'm sure they would rather not pour millions into these niche parts of the line but they're worried about public perception. How dare the market leader and legendary toy tran maker not have have the most cutting edge trains.
It's their cross to bear and I don't see it changing any time soon. Had these guys agreed on a control system I think the situation would be much better.
Mike S.
tschmidt wrote: Doug,The information was posted by Charlie from Nassau Hobby Center. It will be interesting to see what's there. The talk is that there is a sounds tender on the P.E. but no one is sure what it says yet. The price should be interesting! TomS
Tom,
If you see the catalog on line, would you notify us.
As you know, I have been purchasing Polar Express pieces for my daughter's under the tree layout. I normally pre-order without deposit from Davis Trains and on or about August 15th, they give me a call and say, "Your Polar Express (name of piece) has arrived". I give them the CC # and in about three days it is sitting on the doorstep. Around December 1st, Mrs. Buckeye wraps it up for the daughter's Christmas. Needless to say, with some lighted houses purchased from Sam's Club, her under the tree layout is really nice. A sound tender would be a fun addition this year.
Thanks,
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
BUCKEYE,
Nothing beats a tender behind?
laz57
laz 57 wrote: BUCKEYE, Nothing beats a tender behind?laz57
I do agree with you to a point Mike. Lionel certainly doesn't want to allow themselves to get into the second seat position of public perception as far as product advancements and introductions.
Two things to consider though. One is that Lionel has more name recognition in the public which benefits them greatly with introducing products to new comers. Witness the reduction of products introduced by MTH that are aimed at this market. The closest products MTH has for the tradtionally sized beginner market are the Rugged Rails items, which have languished. MTH cancelled most of the Rugged Rails horn only locos. Newcomers and novices do not preorder locomotives the way established modelers do. Beginner products cannot be based on customer proorders. That says to me, MTH could potentially be more cash strapped than we know if they cannot afford to take a chance on following through on production of basic starter products. It amazes me that for all the vast amounts of new product introductions, that MTH still only does a portion of the sales Lionel does. Despite everything, the Lionel name still means more to average people.
The other is that the strongest sector of high end product buyers are retired older hobbiests. These buyers have the discretionary income as they are potentially the last group of working class Americans who will recieve pensions and retirement benefits that put them in this position. In the next decade, this group is destined to become much smaller. Retirement benefits (outside of 401K's) and pensions are already things of the past. They're gone and done.
It would be to Lionel's great benefit to focus more on being the industry leader by scaling back the expensive high end product introductions and focus heavily on intermediate products that have the benefit of appealing to beginners as well as more advanced buyers. The new Lionel Dockside steamer is an excellent example of this. Economical improvements to the existing Lionel Industrial Switcher (die-cast base versus plastic, removal of the side ladder and hole and reducing the depth of the side vent detail to allow ease of roadname/logo printing on the long hood side) would be a good idea given the success of the RMT BEEP.
Take note of the thread on the OGR forum about the Davis Trains service curtailment. There are distinct advantages to simplified products with broad market appeal. Truth be told, smaller products and locos appeal to the largest sector of buyers. Basic products with a respectable level of durable details have the best chance for sales, profits and success. A product with a production run of 2,000 units is not going to have parts available and that's an economic reality. Not to mention if those parts are unique to that one single limited product product.
A product with a production run in the ten's of thousands and has components that are used on other products with similar large production runs is far more likely to justify production and stocking of service parts.
Despite the initial moaning from some about the prototypical merits of the RMT BEEP, the market has spoken and these critics were quickly put to silence.... they were dead wrong. And the beauty of the RMT BEEP is not only does it appeal to the beginner, the budget the semi-scale traditional operators, but it has appeal to others.... notice all the after-market add-on electonic packages that are now available for the BEEP.
I think the BEEP is one of the most perfectly adaptable train products introduced in the past few years, exceeding the Lionel Docksider with a vast selection of roadnames. Sure, there are very successful high end products: the Atlas Trainman line comes to mind, along with the former K-Line die-cast cars and the Lionel scale milk reefers.
But I think the hobby benefits more from products that walk the line of scale fidelity and detail and appeal the broadest range of buyers. In 1996 Lionel announced a simplified control version tentatively called "Scout Control" that never came out. Can you imagine the success of a control system that was simple to use, offered some sort of basic hand-held control that was truly affordable? Can you imagine the success of the MRC Sound Station if Lionel had introduced it rather than MRC?
The MRC 312 Sound Station isn't perfect, nor is it Railsounds. BUT it is AFFORDABLE and offers a spattering of push button digital sounds that are usuable with everything. ... and kids love pusing those buttons and hearing the sounds. Your average kid knows nothing of chuff rates, and your average budget buyer accepts the limitations of having universal sounds for everything for only $50.
This is the track that Lionel needs to be on for future prosperity. Maybe (to come back to topic) the Lionel CHRISTmas catalog will have a majority of product introductions in this vein.... that's what needs to happen.
If Lionel does release a Christmas catalog soon I hope they re-release the Naughty and Nice Ore car set. I'm tired of trying to chase down Ebay'ers who are out of their minds and pay ridiculous prices.
PJ
How much "new" can they make for their Christmas Catalog?
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Skullie wrote: If Lionel does release a Christmas catalog soon I hope they re-release the Naughty and Nice Ore car set. I'm tired of trying to chase down Ebay'ers who are out of their minds and pay ridiculous prices. PJ
I want to hear more about this alleged Polar Express tender with sound. What is the word on the street?
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
"Brianel... have you ever posted something under 1,500 words? Goodness! I need to learn to speed read just to get through it all! LOL! OK - back to reading your post..."
Good one Brent! Yeah, I think once I had a short one at 1,497 words!
Hey, go to that thread on OGR about service at Davis Trains if you want some real lengthy posts. I personally think it's a hoot. They all laugh and scoff at us 027 guys who are happy with trains that aren't "rivet-count correct" or have improper chuff rates .... who's laughing now? Seems some who want prototypically accurate high end locos made in limited runs with unique parts and electronics can't understand why parts are not avaialble for a loco that where 2,000 units were originally made. One can safely guess that obviously many of these expensive locos fail to work reliably because there are many who have loads and loads to say about this.
I love the chuff rates on my MPC Mechanical Sound of Steam tenders (GASP!!). Primitive I know, but in 17 years, I've never had to send one out for a new circuit board!!
Skullie would you PULEEZE stop bidding against me!!!! I too have been looking for these for years!Brent
Lol don't worry, I'm not willing to pay what the bids get up to in those auctions. I get outbid quickly and easily. I'm hoping in time they will get re-released.
.
tschmidt wrote:I just copied this list from another forum. It was listed by a dealer over there. This is the list of what is in the catalog for those who were interested.LNL636847 O-27 Tender w/TrainSounds, Polar Express NYA TOLS 104.99 9/30/07
I just copied this list from another forum. It was listed by a dealer over
there. This is the list of what is in the catalog for those who were interested.
LNL636847 O-27 Tender w/TrainSounds, Polar Express NYA TOLS 104.99 9/30/07
Well, if my previous experience with Lionel's Trainsounds is any indication, count me out.
The sound it produces is too weak (you can barely hear it while the train is running) and vastly inferior to Lionel's Railsounds II (or greater) products.
I'll reserve my jugement until I actually hear it in action.However, at $104.99, I'm not too optimistic. As an example, a typical Railsounds II tender sells for $200 or more (usually more).
I'm hoping Lionel surprises me!
From: Buckeye RiveterTom,If you see the catalog on line, would you notify us.
Buckeye,
Here's a suggestion:
Go to this website:
http://www.lionel.com/
Then, in your Internet Explorer browser (or other browser preferences) , click on the Toolbar menu:
a. Toolsb. Internet Optionsc. and, in the Home Page section, click the button that says "Use Current"
By doing so, each time you log on to the Internet and start the Internet Explorer browser, you'll be taken directly to Lionel's front home page, where, if and when the new "Christmas Catalog" is posted online, you can be the first to notify everyone.
tschmidt wrote:I just copied this list from another forum. It was listed by a dealer over there. This is the list of what is in the catalog for those who were interested.O Polar Express Figures #1 (4) NYA TOF 24.95 9/30/07 LNL624204 O-27 Tractor/Trailer w/Trees, Christmas NYA TOV 24.99 9/30/07 LNL625033 O Box, 2007 Christmas NYA TORF 49.99 10/30/07 LNL625034 O-27 Box, Angela Trotta/Santas Workshp NYA TORF 49.99 9/30/07 LNL626367 O-27 Flat w/Containers, Santas Egg Nog NYA TORF 59.99 8/30/07 LNL626368 O-27 Gondola/Trees and Presents NYA TORF 59.99 8/30/07 LNL628427 O-27 Snowplow, Christmas NYA TORF 209.99 9/30/07 LNL628434 O-27 Trolley, Christmas NYA TOLE 69.99 9/30/07 LNL628699 O-27 2-8-2 Mikado, Holiday RR/Red NYA TOLS 259.99 9/30/07 LNL630068 O-27 North Pole Christmas Set TOSS 219.99 N/A LNL636108 O-27 1Done Tank, Candy Cane NYA TORF 59.99 8/30/07 LNL636583 O Porthole Caboose, 2007 Christmas NYA TORF 49.99 9/30/07 LNL636821 O-27 Dump Car, Naughty or Nice NYA TORF 79.99 10/30/07 LNL636833 O-27 Music Box, 2007 Christmas NYA TORF 64.99 10/30/07 LNL636847 O-27 Tender w/TrainSounds, Polar Express NYA TOLS 104.99 9/30/07 LNL636848 O Dump Car, Candy Cane NYA TORF 79.99 9/30/07 LNL636849 O-27 Stock Car, Tell-Tale Reindeer NYA TORF 52.99 9/30/07 LNL636850 O-27 Box, Santa & Snowman NYA TORF 74.99 9/30/07 LNL636851 O-27 Generator Car w/Christmas Tree NYA TORF 74.99 9/30/07 LNL638626 O-27 2-8-2 Mikado, Holiday RR/Green NYA TOLS 259.99 9/30/07 LNL648368 S AF Box, 2007 Christmas NYA TSRF 54.99 10/30/07 LNL648553 S AF Gondola, Candy Cane NYA TSRF 54.99 10/30/07 LNL711022 G Battery Operated Polar Express Set NYA TGSS 129.99 9/30/07 LNL711024 G Battery Operated Snowman Set NYA TGSS 119.99 9/30/07 LNL711038 G Holiday Traditions Snow Curved Track (4) NYA TGT 13.99 9/30/07 LNL711039 G Straight Track (4) NYA TGT 9.99 9/30/07 LNL711040 G Curve Track (6) NYA TGT 14.99 9/30/07 LNL711041 G Calliope Car, Holiday Tradition NYA TGRF 39.99 9/30/07 LNL887029 G Box, 2007 Christmas
Tom, I really didn't see anything that was designated as Polar Express in O gauge except the tender, or am I reading it incorretly. A "battery operated" .....I have seen this mistake before.
"LNL711022 G Battery Operated Polar Express Set NYA TGSS 129.99 9/30/07"
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I'm active in Large Scale, but having seen photos of this sets locomotive, I can say that it's one set I'll definitely be passing on.
The trainsounds PE tender sounds "interesting". Might have to get one. I'd like to hear it before I buy one. Haven't heard good things about Trainsound steam tenders, but I do have a Trainsounds FT deisel that sounds great...
And while I have no interest in the G-scale PE, Lionel is coming out with a very nice looking General type loco in G that I believe is also battery powered. One version is a Christmas train, and the other is blue and says LIONEL on the tender in big letters. My kids (and I) have been wanting a train to run in the yard. That General set just might be the ticket.
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