Help With Lionel F3 Problem!!??

[stlzed]

Gents - Hopefully someone out there can help me out of a pickle that's got me stumped.  This past weekend I picked up an old Lionel F3 AA power/dummy set at a local show for cheap. It was a basket case repaint/project, I just wanted it as a runner. Dual horizontal Pullmor motors, magnetraction, bodies, frames, trucks, etc all in good shape though. Here's my problem: got it home, checked over, on the track, and one motor turns at half the speed as the other! The front truck/motor seems to run at half the speed as the rear motor/truck, so the front is trying to "pull" the rear motor/truck if that makes sense??? I'm sure it's been re-wired along the way at some point, the E-unit sticks bad, needs addressed.  Any ideas on why this is happening (the different motor speeds that is), or what I can do to fix it!!??  Would a new electronic E-unit possibly help?  Was it wired wrong you think??  Any advice much appreciated!! Thanks!

[Lenny the Lion]

One of the causes of a sluggish operation is due to a dirty motor. You will need to clean the armature and brushes of both motors to get the best level of performance. Also make sure the moving parts of this engine get a good lubrication.

Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

As stated start by giving both motors a GOOD cleaning. Check and replace all worn parts including motor brushes. Get a copy of the parts brakedown and make sure all armiture bushings and thrust washers are in place.

Now the fun part. Since the unit has magnatraction, check the wheels and insure that they are not rubbing against the frame because the bearings have moved in. The bearings are visible in the slots in the frame where the axial is visible. If this has happened they sometimes can be moved out by using a small file to cut a grove in the bearing and then a sharp screw driver to slide the bearing back out.

[stlzed]

Hi - Thanx for the reply.  Any suggestions on how to clean it safely & effectively?  I have some electronic contact cleaner that you use on volume controls etc for stereos, it's a cleaner and a lubricant. Never cleaned a motor before so want to make sure I do it right! Thanks again

[stlzed]

AWWJR2000 - I think you hit the nail on the head with that 2nd scenario of yours, the inside wheel flanges WERE rubbing on the trucks. There's a ton of side to side play in both the axles on the problem truck, I think they're both touching the truck on the inside on the wheel flanges! I'll try your fix & see how it works, thanks for the advice & info, MUCH appreciated!

[stlzed]

Let me follow up to that last post of mine.  I took the motor off the truck & ran it and that motor ran like a top without the truck attached.  Same speed as the front motor. So yep, must be the bearings allowing the wheels to touch the truck. Thanks again . . .

[stubbsO]

Ya know what? You might just want to CYA and get some new bushings as they tend to wear. I got a newer loco and had nothing but problems with chewing up drive gears before figuring out what was up. Im learning repairs as I go. Don't have your part #s handy but might be something to consider. Anybody with thoughts or input on this idea?

[lionel2]

Hello,  I had the same problem a while back...all i did was clean the brushes and springs and replaced the power wires with some brand new ones that will give more power than those 50 year old wires...thanks

[EIS2]

The two motors will never run at exactly the same speed unless the loco is on the track.  The track serves as the coupler between the front and rear wheels.  Differences in the motors and friction in the wheel-sets will result in different motor speeds.  So if you clean and re-lube the wheelsets and motor and nothing is obviously binding, just put it on the track and enjoy your loco.

Earl

[msacco]

Earl,

Wow, I never knew that. Really interesting. I do know that Lionel's service manual on these engines does say that both motors should start at or very near the same voltage. Maybe he should check that. I know my 2354's motors start pretty much at the same time.

 Mike S.

[lionel2]

Yeah that is true....i know my santa fe 2353 is a little faster motor wise than my NYC 2344....might be age difference or just better mechanics...both still have all their orginal parts...i love em...they pull alot...just cannot seem to pull 6 streamline passenger cars around 031 curves too well...have to cut it down to just 4...then why did lionel make the baggage car when you cant use it...too long of a train for the 031 curves..oh well...thanks

[USNRol]

My 2343 was very sluggish when I first got it.  Along with dirty motors which still had good brush life remaining, I found the worm drives in the trucks caked with hardened grease.  After a total breakdown and repacking and lube they ran A LOT better.  My axles also shift side to side from forward to reverse....it's an artifact of the forces the worm drive puts on the axle.  My wheel flanges rubbed a bit too.  I need to investigate the bit about the bearing migration.  Good tip.

Roland