tubular track

[thor]

I like tubular, if only because of the way it sounds, it makes the right noise with the wheels running on it, almost like the real thing. I'm considering experimenting with fitting tubular rails to FasTrack bases, keeping the connection pins but inserting the rail to get the best of both worlds. I'd have to trim away those plastic tabs that support the hollow rail or else open up the seam of tubular rails to fit over them but it might be worth a shot. I already replaced the center rail with copper wire on a couple of pieces and it looks great and has held up well so far.

To my way of thinking, the fun of the hobby is making stuff, experimenting with inventions and modifying ones own equipment to give the desired results. Just buying stuff and running it palls quickly, at least for me, I would rather be inventive and experimental.

Though to continue on this speculative thought, the guys who would be in REAL trouble would be the guys who like the new electronic loaded scale sized trains. For one thing, all the trains are made overseas in China, so that would stop.

To change the subject a bit, based on that remark of yours Brian, it does worry me a bit that there's a possibility the supplies of electronic circuits for spares might dry up though I doubt I'll be around long enough for that to be much of a worry factor! However, I've often wondered, how hard would it be to reverse engineer these boards? For some talented E.E. to make a circuit diagram and etching pattern and list the needed components to populate the board? I suppose its the integrated circuits, the chips, that would be the most problematic, the discrete comonents shouldn't be a problem.

I've many times wished there was a book out there with circuit diagrams for the hobbyist to make his or her own controllers, sound boards, control circuits and so forth. I'd like to do that and its often much cheaper than buying ready made units. When I was last a gung ho model railroader, only in HO, I made most of my own circuitry including some neat back EMF controllers that worked really well. I didn't invent any of them, in the U.K. at the time, the magazines regularly printed How-To articles and so did the mags for the Electronics enthusiasts, carry a lot of model railway circuits, I mean.

I was just at Barnes and Nobles - talking about books and mags - and I'm very disappointed at their sparse coverage of our hobby. I checked out a few current magazines too but there really isn't much of a choice and the electronics ones seems to be mostly Audio/Video and Radio Control oriented.

[Anonymous]

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

word up.

That goes for me too.

 - Clint 

I may only have this one piece, but I'll go down a fightin' for it !!

Thanks, John

 

John thats dedication right there. I love my 027 Im right there with all of you

[phillyreading]

John,

Didn't know for sure that you were joking!

Any way Japan buys American steel and sends it back to us as; Toyota's, Honda's, Mitsubishi's and Subaru's or as stainless steal cutlery(eating utensils). So now China is going to send our steel back as toy trains and automobiles?   Don't know if China has the capability to melt raw materials needed for steel or the machinery needed to roll or press steel.

The reason I know so much about the steel industry is that my dad was a metalergist and shop supervisor with Carpenter Steel Corporation for about 30 years.

Lee F.

 

[csxt30]

There is plenty of tubular track to go around as Williams is now making and selling tubular track. Gargraves makes track for those that want a more realistic tie appearance and uses wood or plastic for cross ties.  

GarGraves, American Models or S Helper makes S gauge track.

Far as the war effort goes you are just blowing steam to make anybody think that the government will collect scrap metal to recycle like toy train track.  Has anybody watched the show on History Channel called "The Boneyard?"  They take old steel train rails and recycle these into fence sections or metal panels.  Copper wire or lead fishing weights would be more needed to make bullets with than tubular train track because the cost of heating up and reshaping the track is too expensive compared to other forms of recycled metal today.  Even used automtive batteries would supply a source of metal if needed.

Lee F.

Lee: I was making a joke !!

I have noticed though, that scrap prices are way up right now & China is buying it all. That means our trains wil be from with American steel again !!

Thanks, John

[phillyreading]

There is plenty of tubular track to go around as Williams is now making and selling tubular track. Gargraves makes track for those that want a more realistic tie appearance and uses wood or plastic for cross ties.  

GarGraves, American Models or S Helper makes S gauge track.

Far as the war effort goes you are just blowing steam to make anybody think that the government will collect scrap metal to recycle like toy train track.  Has anybody watched the show on History Channel called "The Boneyard?"  They take old steel train rails and recycle these into fence sections or metal panels.  Copper wire or lead fishing weights would be more needed to make bullets with than tubular train track because the cost of heating up and reshaping the track is too expensive compared to other forms of recycled metal today.  Even used automtive batteries would supply a source of metal if needed.

Lee F.

[lionel2986]

Lee,

I doubt if Lionel would give up the rights to tubular track. There are too many people that use it. The Williams tubular has 5 ties. Lionel has 3 ties. I do have some older Lionel track that has 5 ties.

Chuck

 

Does the number of ties really matter? I have some old Marx with 3 ties and K-line with 3 ties. The K-line looks just about identical to the Lionel except with tiny "K-line" written on the ties. Did this have anything to do with their lawsuit?

   Umm... we are in a war. 

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to respond.

[Wes Whitmore]

One of the LHSs that I used to visit told me that we are using the 027 track that was produced in the 1970s.  They haven't made any since...I just assumed he meant that he isn't selling any of it and I was buying stock that he has had laying aorund for 20 years.  It's one of those hobby shops that turned to role playing card games to stay afloat.  I haven't been in since.

Wes

[Anonymous]

csxt30 wrote:

You fellows with the tubular track could be in a real bind if we have to go to war & the Govt. has a scrap drive like in the 2nd. world war. There goes all your tubular track, with 48 million tons out there, for the War effert !!   

 

  

 

   Umm... we are in a war. Glad I use Super O

[Anonymous]

My local store told me that tubular track was going to be discontinued, does anyone know anything about that?

  Thanks

I was in my LHS the other day and was reminded of this thread when one of the guys who worked there told me that they were discontinuing tubular track and switches.  I just grinned and said, "Hmmm, is that right?"  Needless to say I didn't put much into what he said, of course this news is from the same LHS where a worker couldn't tell the difference between O-27 and O-31 tubular track.

[Anonymous]

My local LHS guy tried to convince me that "everyone" (meaning collectors) is going to the Fastrack because "everyone" wants the Legacy stuff, and so they don't sell a lot of tubular.  I just looked at him and said, well, "If someone wants to spend twice as much putting together their layout, I guess that's their choice, but as for me, I'm going with the stuff that's been around awhile."  My guess is that he somewhat overstated his case a bit.  BTW, I bought a bit of tubular today, and created a nice curvy loop on my benchwork.  Not a bad Birthday present if you ask me! 

[BDT in Minnesota]

Well said John,,The tubular is a classic item in itself....there is no reason to change due to a trend...BDT

The design has gone practically unchanged for 92 years. Not many manufactactured goods have this kind of track record.

     Yep   a track record with a track record   BDT

[Anonymous]

"You fellows with the tubular track could be in a real bind if we have to go to war & the Govt. has a scrap drive like in the 2nd. world war. There goes all your tubular track, with 48 million tons out there, for the War effert !!"

----------------------

Well, that wouldn't happen in any event--not in the "me"-oriented society we live in these days.  Back in the WWII era, virtually everyone of every age sacrificed--willingly--for the war effort.  These days, the only folks making any kind of sacrifice at all are the uniformed military and their familes (all of whom are volunteers).  Indeed, that is the whole problem with what is going on in this country at the present time, in my opinion.  We Americans have become a very self-indulgent and narcisistic people.

All that the majority of train hobbyists seem to "contribute" these days are ideas for more and more products, at every level, that they can eagerly consume (take note of the Lionel Christmas catalog thread, for example).

As for tubular track:  It's not likely to disappear in the near future.  It has been around for a very long time and is likely used on far more layouts than any other track type, despite the competition posed by FasTrack, RealTrax, Gargraves, Atlas, ScaleTrax, Curtis, a couple of K-Line types, and several others.  Even if Lionel didn't offer it, you would still be able to obtain it from the likes of Williams and others. 

In short:  If you like and use tubular track, I don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of a continuing supply of the stuff. 

[3railguy]

Well said John,,The tubular is a classic item in itself....there is no reason to change due to a trend...BDT

The design has gone practically unchanged for 92 years. Not many manufactactured goods have this kind of track record.

[csxt30]

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

word up.

That goes for me too.

 - Clint 

I may only have this one piece, but I'll go down a fightin' for it !!

Thanks, John

[prewardude]

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

word up.

That goes for me too.

 - Clint 

[brianel027]

"You fellows with the tubular track could be in a real bind if we have to go to war & the Govt. has a scrap drive like in the 2nd. world war. There goes all your tubular track, with 48 million tons out there, for the War effert !!" 

The key word there is "scrap." When the scrap drives were held, these were donations of items that were scrap. I doubt many of us 027 tubular guys would consider our track "scrap." Though to continue on this speculative thought, the guys who would be in REAL trouble would be the guys who like the new electronic loaded scale sized trains. For one thing, all the trains are made overseas in China, so that would stop. Even with trains currently still coming stateside, parts for these newer trains are not widely available if available at all. On the other hand, the kinds of parts I need for my simple non-scale traditionally sized trains are widely and readily available. And with all the used non-scale traditional trains out there, I would hardly be in any trouble.

On the other hand (as easily witnessed on the other forum) the more advanced train enthusiasts are hardly happy now with all they already have and all that's available. I'd gander they're the ones who would be in deep do-do since there would be no new trains to buy and no parts to buy for the trains they already have.

Truth be told, as unpleasant as it is for the scale guys to swallow, we non-scale traditional sized operators are the unquestionable majority in this hobby. Tubular track is FAR more used and popular than any one thinks. As with command control, my own personal numbers put traditional control operators as well as tubular track users at over 95%.

And as far as a patent on 027 track? Well MARX was making it decades ago and K-Line was making it years ago. As I said before, if Lionel was utterly dumb enough to stop making 027 track again, look out Lionel.... you just opened the door wide open for your next new competing company. Or maybe RMT would take the natural step and make 027 track to add to their line of 027 locos that no one thought would be successful.

Sorry Charlie, but we 027 guys rule, whether we get the attention or not, the hobby cannot survive without our participation, support and purchases.

[BDT in Minnesota]

My local store told me that tubular track was going to be discontinued, does anyone know anything about that?

  Thanks

Tubular track is a fact of life. It is here to stay. It won't go away and there is nothing your dealer can do about it.

Well said John,,The tubular is a classic item in itself....there is no reason to change due to a trend...BDT

[RR Redneck]

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

word up.

That goes for me too.

[Frank53]

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

word up.

[3railguy]

My local store told me that tubular track was going to be discontinued, does anyone know anything about that?

  Thanks

Tubular track is a fact of life. It is here to stay. It won't go away and there is nothing your dealer can do about it.

[Blueberryhill RR]

Chuck,

Thank you for the reply!  I like Williams trains and may buy some new tubular track when I need it. 

Have plenty of extra ties from 3R Plastics & Moondog Express to fill the spaces between the rails to make the track look more realistic. To keep the ties in place I glue them in with Squadron green putty as I have green mats over the plywood.

If Lionel stops making tubular track it may be just like Brianel027 mentions, another company will fill the void. Could it be possible that Lionel sold the patent rights for tubular track to Williams?

Lee F.

Lee,

I doubt if Lionel would give up the rights to tubular track. There are too many people that use it. The Williams tubular has 5 ties. Lionel has 3 ties. I do have some older Lionel track that has 5 ties.

Chuck

You fellows with the tubular track could be in a real bind if we have to go to war & the Govt. has a scrap drive like in the 2nd. world war. There goes all your tubular track, with 48 million tons out there, for the War effert !!   

They'll have to pry my tubular track from my cold, dead hands.  Right...Frank53 ??

[csxt30]

Chuck,

Thank you for the reply!  I like Williams trains and may buy some new tubular track when I need it. 

Have plenty of extra ties from 3R Plastics & Moondog Express to fill the spaces between the rails to make the track look more realistic. To keep the ties in place I glue them in with Squadron green putty as I have green mats over the plywood.

If Lionel stops making tubular track it may be just like Brianel027 mentions, another company will fill the void. Could it be possible that Lionel sold the patent rights for tubular track to Williams?

Lee F.

Lee,

I doubt if Lionel would give up the rights to tubular track. There are too many people that use it. The Williams tubular has 5 ties. Lionel has 3 ties. I do have some older Lionel track that has 5 ties.

Chuck

You fellows with the tubular track could be in a real bind if we have to go to war & the Govt. has a scrap drive like in the 2nd. world war. There goes all your tubular track, with 48 million tons out there, for the War effert !!   

[Blueberryhill RR]

Chuck,

Thank you for the reply!  I like Williams trains and may buy some new tubular track when I need it. 

Have plenty of extra ties from 3R Plastics & Moondog Express to fill the spaces between the rails to make the track look more realistic. To keep the ties in place I glue them in with Squadron green putty as I have green mats over the plywood.

If Lionel stops making tubular track it may be just like Brianel027 mentions, another company will fill the void. Could it be possible that Lionel sold the patent rights for tubular track to Williams?

Lee F.

Lee,

I doubt if Lionel would give up the rights to tubular track. There are too many people that use it. The Williams tubular has 5 ties. Lionel has 3 ties. I do have some older Lionel track that has 5 ties.

Chuck

[ADCX Rob]

The black RW-24 handle was used for the throttle on the RW, then they switched to the orange 1011-24 handle for throttle & black RW-24 for the whistle on the 1032/1033 types. 

The orange 1011-24 was then used for the whistle/horn on the KW. 

Rob 

So basically Almost identical transformer but different knob placements? 

 

These are three vastly different transformers, actually.

The 110 watt RW is a one train, with a black throttle handle(RW-24) & red(S-25) direction button & black(S-24) whistle button.

The orange 1011-24 handle for throttle & black RW-24 for the whistle was used on the 75/90 watt 1032/1033 one-train types.

The  two-train 190 watt KW used the orange 1011-24  for the whistle/horn for both A & B outputs.

Not confusing enough?

The "1033 cousin" 75 watt 1034 used a red direction button and a black throttle handle.

Rob

[lionelsoni]

Patents expire after about 20 years.

[phillyreading]

Chuck,

Thank you for the reply!  I like Williams trains and may buy some new tubular track when I need it. 

Have plenty of extra ties from 3R Plastics & Moondog Express to fill the spaces between the rails to make the track look more realistic. To keep the ties in place I glue them in with Squadron green putty as I have green mats over the plywood.

If Lionel stops making tubular track it may be just like Brianel027 mentions, another company will fill the void. Could it be possible that Lionel sold the patent rights for tubular track to Williams?

Lee F.

[brianel027]

Mike, as Bob Keller noted, there will always be tubular track out there.

Lionel is obviously pushing their FasTrack line, which has certainly turned out to be more popular and well received than I ever thought it would be. Dealers I talk with tell me 027 track is still selling even if not in the quantites it did before all the other track choices. From a business standpoint, Lionel might decide it would be a cost saving move by dropping production of track that doesn't move as quickly as it once did.

As Bob noted, Williams is making tubular track. And nearly every time Lionel make a dumb decision like this, someone else comes along to fill the void and ends up giving Lionel more of a run for their money than they realized. Remember K-Line MDK got their start by making 027 track of all things. K-Line was certainly never a threat to Lionel, but K-Line certainly took away sales and profits from Lionel.

Many of the newer established train companies got their start by providing products that Lionel was not. And while Lionel still may have the majority of the market, these other companies have certainly taken a chunk out of Lionel's sales. Often it takes the competition to wake the lion up and get them to do what they already should have done. The MTH story is a well known example. But Industrial Rail UMD and Ready Made Toys are recent good examples.

If someone had proposed the 027 BEEP loco to Lionel years ago, they probably would have said their was no market for it. Then along comes RMT to make Lionel take notice and acknowledge that the traditional 027 market is the LARGEST sector of the 3-rail market, though the much smaller scale end makes far more noise and complains much more. It has taken the presense of Jerry Calabrese to get Lionel to focus more on the majority of the market and less on the minority. And Calabrese is not even a train guy as were Kughn, Brady and Maddox.

So if it turns out to be true that Lionel is going to drop tubular track, it will end up being yet another in a line of dumb decisions Lionel has made over the years that allows another company to get a start and give Lionel far more competition than they bargained for.

[Anonymous]

The black RW-24 handle was used for the throttle on the RW, then they switched to the orange 1011-24 handle for throttle & black RW-24 for the whistle on the 1032/1033 types. 

The orange 1011-24 was then used for the whistle/horn on the KW. 

Rob 

So basically Almost identical transformer but different knob placements? 

 

[Blueberryhill RR]

Just how easy is it to order the Williams track, and how long does it take for delivery?

Right now if Lionel stops making tubular track I will use GarGraves track for replacement track. Otherwise it will cost me too much to change over to a new track system that has differant sized curves than what I currently have.

Lee F.

Lee,

Pick up the phone and call Williams. I got my last order of Tubular track in 3 days.

Chuck