Lionel's 153 IR Controller - does anyone use this?

[lionelsoni]

For what it's worth, the Kalmbach circuit has no delay.

[Toy Trains FTW]

lionelsoni

Actually, far from being complex compared to the 153IR, the Kalmbach circuit requires only 5 connections, that is, the 3 wires from the signal and 2 more to connect an extra lamp in parallel with the red lamp.  The 153IR needs 7 connections, 2 for its own power, 3 for the signal, and 2 for the accessory power (including a second connection to "ACC GND").

Here's the manual for the 153IR:  https://www.lionelsupport.com/media/servicedocuments/71-4111-250.pdf

Of course, creating the control rail is the main difference in difficulty between these two methods, but you've already got that.

 

ohh ok! ill try it in the future but the issue im have with the 153ir is that i have the timer knob on its lowest setting but it takes about 6 seconds for it to switch back and on the lionelcs2011 channel theirs is seen switching back instantly, and that is what i want since my layout is so small.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0mXmPWTLIs

[lionelsoni]

Actually, far from being complex compared to the 153IR, the Kalmbach circuit requires only 5 connections, that is, the 3 wires from the signal and 2 more to connect an extra lamp in parallel with the red lamp.  The 153IR needs 7 connections, 2 for its own power, 3 for the signal, and 2 for the accessory power (including a second connection to "ACC GND").

Here's the manual for the 153IR:  https://www.lionelsupport.com/media/servicedocuments/71-4111-250.pdf

Of course, creating the control rail is the main difference in difficulty between these two methods, but you've already got that.

[Toy Trains FTW]

lionelsoni

The control rail is good at turning things on (crossing gates, red signal lights), but not so good at turning them off (green signal lights).  Many people get around this by using the control rail to operate a relay.  Then they wire the relay contacts to turn on one or the other of the signal lights.

There is a circuit however that is simpler than using a relay:  Connect the signal common to the control rail.  Connect the green-light terminal to the outside rails (other than the control rail).  Connect the red-light terminal to the accessory supply voltage.  Then connect a couple of the same lamps used in the signal in parallel with the red lamp.  (Or use a lamp with the same voltage rating that draws about twice the current of the lamps in the signal.)

Here's how it works:  When the train is not there current flows through all the lamps; but the resistance of the red lamp and the extra lamps that you added in parallel is so low that most of the voltage is across the green lamp.  The green lamp lights brightly, but the red lamp scarcely glows.  When the train arrives, it shorts out the green lamp, which goes dark, and the full accessory voltage appears across the red lamp and the added lamps, all of which light brightly.

You can hide the extra lamps entirely, perhaps under your layout, or you can use them somewhere on the layout where a light that goes on and off for no good reason looks appropriate.

This circuit was described at least 70 years ago by Albert Kalmbach (of Kalmbach Publishing fame), but using a resistor.  Lamps work better, because, when the signal is red, they draw much less current than a suitable resistor does.

 

hmm sounds complex ill give it a try in the future! i would assume it would be easier to use the 153ir. but i still dont know why the timer is so long

[lionelsoni]

The control rail is good at turning things on (crossing gates, red signal lights), but not so good at turning them off (green signal lights).  Many people get around this by using the control rail to operate a relay.  Then they wire the relay contacts to turn on one or the other of the signal lights.

There is a circuit however that is simpler than using a relay:  Connect the signal common to the control rail.  Connect the green-light terminal to the outside rails (other than the control rail).  Connect the red-light terminal to the accessory supply voltage.  Then connect a couple of the same lamps used in the signal in parallel with the red lamp.  (Or use a lamp with the same voltage rating that draws about twice the current of the lamps in the signal.)

Here's how it works:  When the train is not there current flows through all the lamps; but the resistance of the red lamp and the extra lamps that you added in parallel is so low that most of the voltage is across the green lamp.  The green lamp lights brightly, but the red lamp scarcely glows.  When the train arrives, it shorts out the green lamp, which goes dark, and the full accessory voltage appears across the red lamp and the added lamps, all of which light brightly.

You can hide the extra lamps entirely, perhaps under your layout, or you can use them somewhere on the layout where a light that goes on and off for no good reason looks appropriate.

This circuit was described at least 70 years ago by Albert Kalmbach (of Kalmbach Publishing fame), but using a resistor.  Lamps work better, because, when the signal is red, they draw much less current than a suitable resistor does.

[Toy Trains FTW]

lionelsoni

The "isolated rail" (which Lionel calls a "control rail") is a length of one of the outside rails, insulated from the other rails and located along the track at the place where you want to detect the presence of a train.  The train's wheels and axles connect the control rail to the other outside rail when the train runs along the track where the control rail is located, acting as an electrical switch to turn the accessory on.

To use a control rail to control an accessory, like a crossing gate, connect one accessory terminal to the control rail and the other accessory terminal to the supply voltage that you want to use to power the accessory.  That voltage supply needs to be returned to the other outside rails.  For example, if you are using a 1033 transformer to run your trains, connect the transformer's A terminal (the common) to the outside rails (other than the control rail) and the U terminal to the center rail.  Then use the C terminal, which provides a constant accessory voltage, as the accessory's supply voltage.  If you are using a ZW transformer, connect the U terminal to the outside rails (other than the control rail) and use one of the A, B, C, or D terminals as the accessory's supply voltage, set to the voltage that the accessory requires.

You can use the center rail as the accessory supply instead, but then the accessory will always get just whatever voltage the train gets and will not work when the train is stopped.

If you want to use a separate transformer for the accesssory, just be sure that its common terminal is connected to the outside rails.  You don't have to use a transformer as the accessory supply.  For example, you can use a DC supply if your accessory works better on DC or was designed for DC only.

 

Hmmm thanks for the info and im sure you explained it very well but im still not sure what you mean. I do understand the control rail and i do have one so i guess my question is is that the way you have yours set up for block signals, will it be one green then when its set of does it turn to red and the green go off? of is one on constantly and the other comes on when set off?

[lionelsoni]

The "isolated rail" (which Lionel calls a "control rail") is a length of one of the outside rails, insulated from the other rails and located along the track at the place where you want to detect the presence of a train.  The train's wheels and axles connect the control rail to the other outside rail when the train runs along the track where the control rail is located, acting as an electrical switch to turn the accessory on.

To use a control rail to control an accessory, like a crossing gate, connect one accessory terminal to the control rail and the other accessory terminal to the supply voltage that you want to use to power the accessory.  That voltage supply needs to be returned to the other outside rails.  For example, if you are using a 1033 transformer to run your trains, connect the transformer's A terminal (the common) to the outside rails (other than the control rail) and the U terminal to the center rail.  Then use the C terminal, which provides a constant accessory voltage, as the accessory's supply voltage.  If you are using a ZW transformer, connect the U terminal to the outside rails (other than the control rail) and use one of the A, B, C, or D terminals as the accessory's supply voltage, set to the voltage that the accessory requires.

You can use the center rail as the accessory supply instead, but then the accessory will always get just whatever voltage the train gets and will not work when the train is stopped.

If you want to use a separate transformer for the accesssory, just be sure that its common terminal is connected to the outside rails.  You don't have to use a transformer as the accessory supply.  For example, you can use a DC supply if your accessory works better on DC or was designed for DC only.

[Toy Trains FTW]

dbaker48

I have two of them, and the issue I have is that I have a LOT of natural light in my train room.  I would have to adjust the sensitivity multiple times during the day depending on the time and amount of sunlight.  So after getting tired of fighting them all the time, I just wired my signal lights to isolated rails, and everything has been great ever since.  I now use the 153's as a bridge abruptment, they are great for leaning the hinged bridges on when the bridge is open.

 

interesting! how does one do that with isolated rails?

[dbaker48]

I have two of them, and the issue I have is that I have a LOT of natural light in my train room.  I would have to adjust the sensitivity multiple times during the day depending on the time and amount of sunlight.  So after getting tired of fighting them all the time, I just wired my signal lights to isolated rails, and everything has been great ever since.  I now use the 153's as a bridge abruptment, they are great for leaning the hinged bridges on when the bridge is open.

[Toy Trains FTW]

Hello, sorry for being soo late. lol. but anyways  I have one of these and its pretty hard to set one off from light alone imo and second, im having issues with the timing on mine. Like i have it set to the lowest setting on the timer part and it still take about 6 seconds for it to switch off.  in a video on the lionel cs 2011 channel theirs turns on and off within 2 seconds. i need this because my layout is so small.  thanks for any ideas on how to solve this. 

[Joe Hohmann]

I use a number of them on 3 different layouts ("O", "S", and "Christmas"). Since my layouts are small, I have "hidden" most of them in tunnels, and even in open-back buildings. None of them feed off the track power, as I use FasTrack or S-Helper. I've never had a problem with any of these Lionel ones, although I've read about problems with the MTH ones due to room-light considerations. Some of mine control more than one signal, crossing, etc.  Joe

[traindaddy1]

RALPH: Thanks for clear E-Mail.

Traindaddy

You can control more than one item with a 153IR.  The IR can initiate actions based on a train passing in front of the 'grey box' and it can keep lights on in the accessory. EG the gateman. one connection keeps the light on, the other connection triggers it when the train passes the 'grey box'.  with that in mind, multiple lights, signals or accesories can be triggered by the same grey box. 

Two factors....one is the trigger...the grey box sets off the action. As long as it makes sense to you that you are initiating accessories from the same 'grey box'  all is ok. Second, very important, is power. multiple accessories/lights/etc would dictate powering from a separate -not track power- source.

I use the "grey box" spread over the entire layout to trigger multiple accessories and signals. I use it for Gateman, switch towers, signal towers, and assorted signals---items i wouldn't normally associate with a SC2/ASC controller. I have it hooked up so that when the train on loop one passes a grey box, accessories away off on a mountain scene begin action/lights.

I'm able to do this in part because i put the connectors under tabletop on the benchwork and have them spread throughtout for multiple connections AND i have separated power busses for Accessory, Light and Signals [that's 3] from the track power and switch power and the TMCC data bus.

hope this info helps

ralph

[traindaddy1]

TO ALL:  Sounds great! I think I'm going to try it.  Thanks for the Thread and the feedback.

[cheech]

Traindaddy

You can control more than one item with a 153IR.  The IR can initiate actions based on a train passing in front of the 'grey box' and it can keep lights on in the accessory. EG the gateman. one connection keeps the light on, the other connection triggers it when the train passes the 'grey box'.  with that in mind, multiple lights, signals or accesories can be triggered by the same grey box. 

Two factors....one is the trigger...the grey box sets off the action. As long as it makes sense to you that you are initiating accessories from the same 'grey box'  all is ok. Second, very important, is power. multiple accessories/lights/etc would dictate powering from a separate -not track power- source.

I use the "grey box" spread over the entire layout to trigger multiple accessories and signals. I use it for Gateman, switch towers, signal towers, and assorted signals---items i wouldn't normally associate with a SC2/ASC controller. I have it hooked up so that when the train on loop one passes a grey box, accessories away off on a mountain scene begin action/lights.

I'm able to do this in part because i put the connectors under tabletop on the benchwork and have them spread throughtout for multiple connections AND i have separated power busses for Accessory, Light and Signals [that's 3] from the track power and switch power and the TMCC data bus.

hope this info helps

ralph

[rlplionel]

I use three 153IR's on my layout. One controls two crossing gates plus a semaphore; another operates an automatic gateman; and the third controls a banjo signal. I decided to use the 153IR's rather than tear up or cut into my already laid tubular track to make insulated track sections. Have found the controllers to be very reliable in operation. The controller for the crossing gates and semaphore detects trains on two parallel sets of tracks. I suspect it could see trains on three parallel tracks, as I have inadvertently set it off by walking past the edge of the layout.

[Birds]

Thank you for all the responses!  It sounds like it's a good solution.

Traindaddy1: According to the owner's manual for the 153IR, you can have several accessories (such as crossing gates) wired to one 153IR.

Here is a link to the owner's manual on Lionel's website.

http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/71-4111-250.pdf

Chris 

[dwiemer]

I am not sure............I don't have one, yet.  One thing that I will pass along though.  I found in one of the old CTT issues where they disassembled one of these controllers and put the IR device under the track and facing up between the ties.  It worked real well and looked easy to do.  You may want to do a search, or ask one of the CTT guys about this.

Dennis

[traindaddy1]

Ralph, Lenny, Dennis, Buckeye, Cheech et al: Have read your posts.

Can one 152 IR Controller be hooked up to more than one accessories at the same time?

On my layout, I have an automobile crossing over three separate track lines with a Crossing Gate on each side of the outer track to stop autos.  I have connected 153C contactors to each of the tracks so that when any of the three trains approaches the crossing, the gates are activated.   

In other words, I was wondering if the infrared sensors would stretch across three parallel tracks (I understand that I would need two) and accomplish the same crossing gates' action. This way I can remove the 153C contactors that, at times, have to be adjusted.

I hope I have written clearly.  As always, many thanks.

 

[cheech]

Hi Chris

I use them. They work well. There are other products which also do the same thing. Zstuff is the manufacturer. This item may be better for you if all your track is tacked in already.

That said, the zstuff looks different, works the same and with the relay you need, is about the same price. No worries about wiring, it is as simple as can be. Can controll lights, accessories, signals, etc.

The 153IR has a big footprint. Especially if you use the lockon powering feature. Consider using external power, there is a toggle switch that controls this on the item. You will be much happier with how the items connected to it function. Remember, taking power from the track for you engines and accessories makes one of them work less well......Like i said, i have a large number of them sprinkled throughout the layout. I disassembled them so only the grey tool-box is above on the table. all the other parts are under, attached to the benchwork. Quite simple, just time.

I also have the z-stuff and they are fine product as well.

The comment about controlling crossovers. 45/90 crossovers were meant for a figure 8, where all sides are powered. You need disengage these connections and these devices [zstuff or 153s]  can control collisions with the power blocks properly in place. I use the z-stuff to control collisions at a set of 4 45degree crossings and another at a set of 4 90degree crossings. Works well so far.

Search for 153IR into 2006, you should be able to see some pictures of the 153 taken apart.

hope this info is useful 

Ralph

 

[cheech]

Hi Chris

I use them. They work well. There are other products which also do the same thing. Zstuff is the manufacturer. This item may be better for you if all your track is tacked in already.

That said, the zstuff looks different, works the same and with the relay you need, is about the same price. No worries about wiring, it is as simple as can be. Can controll lights, accessories, signals, etc.

The 153IR has a big footprint. Especially if you use the lockon powering feature. Consider using external power, there is a toggle switch that controls this on the item. You will be much happier with how the items connected to it function. Remember, taking power from the track for you engines and accessories makes one of them work less well......Like i said, i have a large number of them sprinkled throughout the layout. I disassembled them so only the grey tool-box is above on the table. all the other parts are under, attached to the benchwork. Quite simple, just time.

I also have the z-stuff and they are fine product as well.

The comment about controlling crossovers. 45/90 crossovers were meant for a figure 8, where all sides are powered. You need disengage these connections and these devices [zstuff or 153s]  can control collisions with the power blocks properly in place. I use the z-stuff to control collisions at a set of 4 45degree crossings and another at a set of 4 90degree crossings. Works well so far.

Search for 153IR into 2006, you should be able to see some pictures of the 153 taken apart.

hope this info is useful 

Ralph

 

[Buckeye Riveter]

Have a couple of these, they work flawlessly I love them!  It clips to the track the same as any Lionel lockon. Very easy to use, you can control the amount of time you want to operate your signals or gates. No need for any insulated track sections or complicated signal control systems. The controls are very neatly concealed in a couple of trap door like configurations. Looks great on any layout.

I have two to run signals.  One sits in a tunnel and works perfect.  Mine are hard wired since I use Realtrax. I have thought about using one to run my Hobo Water Tower speaker.

[dwiemer]

While I don't have any of these, on the "Building an O Gauge Layout" DVD, they caution about using these to control train movement through say a 45 degree track crossing as they can have issues that would end with a collision.  That said, they also mention that certain light can cause them to trigger, so if you get one and have trouble, check how your lights are shining in the area.

Good Luck,

dennis

[Lenny the Lion]

Have a couple of these, they work flawlessly I love them!  It clips to the track the same as any Lionel lockon. Very easy to use, you can control the amount of time you want to operate your signals or gates. No need for any insulated track sections or complicated signal control systems. The controls are very neatly concealed in a couple of trap door like configurations. Looks great on any layout.

[Birds]

Does anyone use Lionel's 153 IR controller?  If so, how do you like it?

I was looking at this controller as a way to insert operating accessories (such as crossing gates, block signals, etc.) into a layout where the track has already been secured.  Or where adding an outside insulated control rail would require making 40-80 inches of hand made insulated outside rail.

Thoughts regarding experience with this product would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Chris