lionel Rock Island 4-8-4 6-18001

[cleecolbert]

I also have one of these, and it runs very rough too, My grampa was an engineer on the Rock Island and operated one of these engines!

[lulu33]

Lionelsoni congratulation. All pleasure is for me

The frenchy

[lionelsoni]

Bienvenue!

[lulu33]

I reply me.

I replaced the original motor  by a Lionel spare # 681-100 and also, I set drive axles to a right spacing and gap (see operating manual for lionel train 1945 - 1969).

Now the loco run like a postwar Berkshire ; smoothly and without unpleasant noise.

Hello from France

[lulu33]

Hi

I am new to the forum and I have the same problem with mine rock island 484.

I live in Europe and for me it's more simple to replace complete motor. Also, my motor feels "hot temperture".

Do you know old postwar item number that I must look for (the ebay for example) for replace it.

Happy classic toy trains

Regards

[sir james I]

Replace the bushing's and you will have a nice engine. All the tinkering in the world will not fix this motor. The bushings are the problem.

[Kevin McSheridan]

Did you ever get the Rock island Northern running smooth?

Mine runs very well....Now!

[3railguy]

 Hello John!  It is not the Brushes that need replacing here. It is the Bushings(Bearings as some call them) & they are for the Armature Shaft of the Motor.

 Let's not jump to the worst possabilities here. What you are saying is possible but it is not a common ailment with these engines. Always start checking the simplest and obvious first. To check the motor bushings and bearings, remove the motor and wiggle the armature shaft (motor shaft). If there is excessive longitudinal play (lengthwise), an aditional thrust washer is probably needed. That is an easy fix. If there is excessive lateral play (sideways) , then new bushings are likely needed. That is not an easy fix. One of the most common ailments is the motor being out of alignment in the cradle. These were a factory adjustment and not always done properly. Even witht the old postwar 726's and 736's. It is easy to shim these in either direction. The other ailment is sometimes sideplay in the drive axle.

[Cheese]

Hmmm,

I've always liked the look ofthe Rock Island and Lackawanna Northerns. I too want to get one, but other purchases must be made first.

If someone could send me a copy of that tune up article then I'd be forever gratefull.

Cheese

[jchase1970]

Thank You everybody!

 

John 

[csxt30]

Check the back issues of OGR to find the fix. Jim Barrett has had several articles about how to fix this fine looking loco.

One only needs to read the above posts from our own knowledgeable members. No need to promote the other forums.

[BigJim]

Check the back issues of OGR to find the fix. Jim Barrett has had several articles about how to fix this fine looking loco.

[1688torpedo]

 Hello John!  It is not the Brushes that need replacing here. It is the Bushings(Bearings as some call them) & they are for the Armature Shaft of the Motor. They do two things: They retain oil for the Armature Shaft to turn smoothly & in turn the motor runs cooler like an Automotive Engine & the second thing they do is to keep the Armature Shaft in line so that it will mesh with the Main Worm Gear properly. If none of the above happens you will have a poor running engine. Here are some part numbers for you: 681-120 rear bearing & 2020M-17 Front Bearing. Lionel or Dr.Tinker should have these in stock & will be able to install them for you as they can be tricky to work with if you do not have the proper tools to do so. After the above is accomplished & the Wheels & Rods checked out. Your Northern should run just as good or better than any new engine. Take Care.

[3railguy]

The Lionel Rock Island Northern is truely a beautiful machine but notorious for faults in the drivetrain. Start by checking for loose or bent rods. You can do this by removing the motor and rotating the drivers with your fingers slowly and feel for binding. I doubt a driver is out of quarter but you never know. It would require a puller and press to fix that. The Northern uses the same drive setup as the 726 berk and the ailments are similar. The motor rests in a cradle and can easily be misaligned causing the worm gear to bind resulting in rough, jerky running. This can be adjusted with shims under the motor. I've used paper to shim them but shimstock is best. There can also be to much longitudinal play in the armature shaft which can be snugged up with thrust washers. It is not real common to find too much side play in the armature shaft but it can mean the bushings need to be replaced. This is often a task for a service station as it requires a press. Another common ailment of the Northern is there is too much sideplay in the drivers. This can be remedied by inserting nylon half washers between the wheels and frame, superglued to the frame. I have the old CTT issue somewhere and I recall mention of burrs on the worm gear. These can be carefully removed with a file, emery cloth, and automotive valve lapping compound if that is the case.

[jchase1970]

Palallin I lost all of my 'stash' in my house fire on nov 20, 2005 including my all of my trains I had got in the last 25 years.  but if like Keith says it is only brushes, I'll order them and replace them.  The drive wheels arn't binding as a matter of fact if you push this engine on the track it is very smooth indeed just not when it has help from the transfomer.  To bad I long ago out grew the Brio sytle push trains, lol.

 

John 

[palallin]

can you please tell me what issue that is and I can see if I can back order it?

Thank you,

John 

 

It's the first "regular" issue and long out of print.  That's why I said i would copy it for you if you can't find it in your stash (if you have one) or someone more convenient for you.  Of course, going straight to the horses mouth is OK, too. 

 

 

[1688torpedo]

 Hello John! & to the forum. The problem with your Rock Island Engine lies with the fact that the Two Bushings for the Armature Shaft in the Motor were made sloppy & out of tolerance. What you will have to do is take your engine to a Lionel repairman & have them order new Bushings from Lionel & install them for you or if you feel comfortable doing it yourself you can go to Lionel's website & order the appropiate parts & install them.It can be tricky if you do not have the proper tools to do this type of work. Do not try to run the engine as you risk stripping the main gear as the armature shaft will move side to side causing the engine to run rough & another problem associated with this type of engine is that one of the Drive Wheels may be binding against the frame causing it to run poorly as well. After your engine is fixed it should run very well. Contact Dr.Tinker's Toy Train Parts as he has a website & he should be able to help you out with parts or service. Take Care.

[Frank53]

You can also try emailing Dennis from his website:

http://www.brennansmodelrr.com/

Dennis is one of the most helpful fellows you will find in the hobby. His scenery materials including ballast and various ground covers and ballast are excellent.

[jchase1970]

can you please tell me what issue that is and I can see if I can back order it?

Thank you,

John 

[palallin]

In the second issue of CTT, Dennis Brennan wrote an article on tuning up the Rock Island Northern.  If you can't find a source, let me know.  I can photo copy it for you.

[jchase1970]

This is the engine I used to dream about when I saw it in the catalog and I have always wanted one.  Orginally these were around $1000 but now you can pick them up all over the place for $200-$250.  So I bought one that was mint and it came today and sit it up on a 072 oval and this engine runs very ruff to say the least.  Now I was reading some auction listings and saw one that said "bearing had been replaced and now runs smooth."  So I am wondering if I need to replace a bearing in it, I took it apart and grease it and that didn't seem to make any diffrence.

If anybody has any infomation on this engine please tell me what you know about it or if you have modified it.

 

John