New MTH R-T-R catalog observation

[DMUinCT]

The World has changed! 

Lionel, MTH, and others do not "tool up" untill they know how many orders they have. The production price and time of production in China is also in play.  Ship the units that you have the most orders for first.  Even cancel catalog items with few orders.

In the full MTH 177 page Catalog (2007 Volume One) I do not see any Rugged Rails.

Every MTH catalog I have, has this dis-claimer on the back inside cover:

"Not all products depicted in this catalog are production models. In some cases, the items pictured may be models in HO scale, O scale, or another scale that has been altered digitally"

[Andrew Falconer]

Brian, 

If you can not get the Ready-To-Run Sets Catalog to open on-line you may need to disable a program if a prompt box comes up and tells you of a problem.

The most modern scheme is the Pittsburgh Steelers Scheme.

Everything else is railroads before 1980 like Alaska or before 1960's like everything else.

Andrew

[pbjwilson]

Maybe buying an N gauge loco wasnt in the budget.

But really, if you make HO, O, and G - Use what you have on hand. Why go purchase a competitors product?

Besides that , its just a size comparison. So there is a little photo wizardry, whoopty do.

[trigtrax]

Okay I went back and found the doctored photo..

My Theory... By uping the size you could get this photo with a cheaper camera. Using an N-guage model would have required much more resolution..

 

[Anonymous]

Fifedog and Trigtrax:

Have either of you seen the R-T-R catalog? 

I've seen it online but frankly my interest was in the funny buildings.. Neil's Guitars, Jerry's comics,etc. I didn't mean to upset you and if I did I'm sorry, but Train Catalogs have been in the world of fantasy since the beginning. I have a KMT Green Minn. & ST Louis that was supposed to be a Lionel, only Lionel made it Tuscan.. I believe 3rd Rail Ads show the actual prototype locomotive in many cases. With today's computer graphics you could put horns and a tail on a loco if you wanted. Just look at catalogs for what they are.. A sales gimick

Did you actually intend to ask yourself a question?

I think the point of the initial post here was 'Why would MTH use HO for N, O for HO, and G for O?  That is WRONG no matter which way you try to slice it... If you are going to use actual engines to show the differences in size, then use the correct engines for that size... MTH does not manufacture N scale, so why even bother putting it in the catalog?  Then to go an photoshop in a third rail on the G scale track and photoshop out the third rail on the O gauge track just seems like a load of work when all they had to do was use the correct scale for their representation...

I like MTH's new marketing scheme though... Instead of manufacturer both a 2-rail and 3-rail version they simply combined the two and charge you a premium for something you will most likely never use!!!  LOL!!!  And people complain about Lionel!!!

I stopped by the LHS yesterday to browse the shelves... MTH has some nice engines out right now and I may have to pick a couple of them up once the finances settle down from the house purchase...

Never ceases to amaze me how when someone points something out that a manufacturer did wrong, people will jump to defend them no matter the cost...

[trigtrax]

Fifedog and Trigtrax:

Have either of you seen the R-T-R catalog? 

I've seen it online but frankly my interest was in the funny buildings.. Neil's Guitars, Jerry's comics,etc. I didn't mean to upset you and if I did I'm sorry, but Train Catalogs have been in the world of fantasy since the beginning. I have a KMT Green Minn. & ST Louis that was supposed to be a Lionel, only Lionel made it Tuscan.. I believe 3rd Rail Ads show the actual prototype locomotive in many cases. With today's computer graphics you could put horns and a tail on a loco if you wanted. Just look at catalogs for what they are.. A sales gimick

[NewbieLady]

Hello NewbieLady:

It appears that I am alone on this one.  Please don't put words in my mouth, I never used the word conspiracy.  I too own a MTH R-T-R set and agree that the value is outstanding.  As a MTH customer, I just thought the graphic was poorly done.  But, I may be making mountains out of molehills...

Regards,

John O

 

My apologies, John; I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just used the word "conspiracy" in a light-hearted manner. I just meant that I don't think MTH was trying to misrepresent anything - IMO they were just trying to demonstrate different scales to potential new hobbyists, and because they don't make N scale, maybe they thought they'd use an HO, an O, and a G scale in the graphic (all of which they manufacture) to show the relative differences between N, HO, and O. Sorry if I offended! :-)
But I see your point, and maybe they should have just used drawings to demonstrate this, rather than photos of actual engines.

[johnandjulie13]

Hello NewbieLady:

It appears that I am alone on this one.  Please don't put words in my mouth, I never used the word conspiracy.  I too own a MTH R-T-R set and agree that the value is outstanding.  As a MTH customer, I just thought the graphic was poorly done.  But, I may be making mountains out of molehills...

Regards,

John O

 

[NewbieLady]

I think you're all making way too much of this. It seems to me that the MTH RTR catalogs are mostly aimed at newcomers to the hobby looking to purchase their first train set, and I think they were just using those photos to show the relative sizes of the different scales to people who are unfamiliar with the differences in scale. Maybe they didn't have an n-scale loco available to photograph (or didn't want to include another manufacturer's product) so used what they manufacture to give people a feeling for what the different scales look like relative to one another. I don't see a conspiracy here. Just my opinion. By the way, I own three MTH RTR sets, and think the quality of the sets is outstanding. On my limited budget and space, Railking/Rugged Rails is what I'm sticking with.

[johnandjulie13]

Fifedog and Trigtrax:

Have either of you seen the R-T-R catalog?  The photo was not being used to show a new model or prototype.  If it was of a prototype, I would have thought nothing of it and would have had the same opinion as both of you.  But why would you digitally alter the appearance of 1 gauge track to make it look 3 rail?  If the purpose of the graphic was to demonstrate the additional detail one gets by buying O gauge, MTH has plenty of highly detailed O scale premier engines that would have provided better examples.

I also think MTH does a disservice to themselves by portraying their attractive HO steamer as N scale.  If I were a potential new entrant to the hobby, seeing that picture could make me think: "Wow, for N scale, that engine is really detailed!  Maybe I don't need to go with a larger  gauge, afterall." 

Regards,

John O 

[fifedog]

Folks, this is nothing new.  ATLAS used to do the same thing back in the 80's and 90's with their smaller scaled items.  I do believe MTH depends heavily on pre-orders as far as their production goes.  You can't promise the world, then try to keep your head above water...see K-line.

[trigtrax]

As a fan of MTH, it just put me off.  Why use deceptive practices?  Given the lack of responses to my post, I guess most people don't really care.

Catalogs are printed before the trains in them are produced. There have been numerous "production tricks" used over the years. What you're saying is a little like going to see "Jurrasic Park" and questioning where they got the T Rex

[johnandjulie13]

Hello Brianel:

MTH was not trying to introduce a new model with their graphic.  I believe it was to demonstrate the additional detail that you get on O gauge products, relative to the smaller gauges.  As a fan of MTH, it just put me off.  Why use deceptive practices?  Given the lack of responses to my post, I guess most people don't really care.

As for Rugged Rails, there was nary a Rugged Rails product shown.  I think MTH may have discontinued the Rugged Rails line and just folded the products into the Rail King line.  I believe the 2-8-0 consolidation is a Rugged Rails product and it is featured in a number of sets, but all of the sets are classified as Rail King.

It is interesting that MTH advertises that its sets run on 031 curves, but many of the passenger sets indicated that the passenger cars are O27.

Regards,

John O

[brianel027]

I can't even get their catalogs to open on-line anymore, so haven't see one in a couple years. Funny because I can easily view everyone catalog's on-line: Lionel, K-Line, K-Lionel, Williams, Weaver, RMT, Atlas... just not MTH. Ah, another in a long list of reasons why I don't buy their products (what utterly few they make for an 027 modeler/operator). The Rugged Rails line has all the new products and excitement of last week's newspaper laying in a puddle of water.

But to answer your question John, MTH has long done this from the very beginning. When the Railking SD45 (pre-ScaleKing) was introduced, the photo was of an HO model. Imagine yourself as a company like MTH - you have two choices for new product introductions if a pre-production model isn't available for photographing by press time: you use an artist's illustration or rendering (which Lionel admits they do), OR you use a similar model from another scale, which is what MTH does.

This was discussed a very long time ago on the OGR Forum when someone from MTH told someone that this is what they do, use other scale models like HO to illustrate their future products. For the most part this works fine. But as with the example I gave above, the HO model of the SD45 failed to portray the compacted dimensions of the Railking version.

PS: If anyone HAS seen the catalogs AND there is something NEW in the Rugged Rails line in a modern road name, I'd love to know about it. The last new things they did were a few years ago, which included a Railbox Box Car (very nice!!! I have one) and a Norfolk Southern 3-bay Hopper.

Just to be clear... It's not that I'm down on or hate MTH... not at all. I like the Railbox Rugged Rails Box Car. They just make so utterly very little for a 027 guy like me. After the initial Rugged Rails introductions, it took years for any others to be introduced. As with the "Train-19" cars being remade by Lionel... they're reissuing the same exact cars K-Line made, most of which (except of the LNE hopper) were already re-issues of previously made K-Line products.

HELLO? You don't sell more trains to folks who aready own the so-called new trains you are making (yet once again).

[johnandjulie13]

Has any else noticed the the picture on the inside of the new MTH R-T-R catalog?  down at the bottom, the catalog shows three engines, next to the engines are captions that read N gauge (but the engine is clearly MTH's HO engine), HO gauge (but it is clearly an O gauge engine) and O gauge (with a picture of MTH's G gauge big boy).  At first, I thought it was just a bad typo, but upon further examination, they digitally doctored the picture of the big boy by adding a third rail to the G gauge track.  Why would they do this?

Any thoughts?

Regards,

John O