MTH & Lionel compatability Question??

[Anonymous]

 

I bought a new Lionel Southwest Freight ready to run train set in January 07. After two days he EMD GP38 Santa Fe locomotive stopped running, so I had to send it back to Lionel for repair.

Instead of waiting 8 weeks to run my set again I bought a MTH EMD SD45 with protsound. I called MTH before I bought the SD45, they said the Lionel CW80 transformer would run the SD45 with no problems.

The CW80 transformer will only make the lights shine and sounds, the locomotive will not run at all.  :-(

I read in your forum MTH locomotives require more power than Lionel, and the CW80 transformers have had a lot of problems.

Do I need to buy a MTH transformer (Z-1000) to run my MTH SD45?

Thanks!  :-)

[rockn77]

I just went through the same issues.  You can't use a CW-80 for the MTH.  It needs the extra boost.  So yes, you need to buy the z-1000.  It will power both MTH and Lionel.  It should be noted I had trouble with my z-1000 and I'm waiting to have another one shipped to me by the vendor.  If I'm going to get more involved in the hobby, then I'm going to buy a bigger transfomer anyway, like a zw.  I hope this helps.

Robert 

 

[spankybird]

I believe that you will find any pure sin wave transformer will work fine. The CW80 is not a pure sine wave transformer. I am surprised that anyone from MTH would say "I called MTH before I bought the SD45, they said the Lionel CW80 transformer would run the SD45 with no problems" when they have stated that their (MTH) products are not compatible with this transformer.

 

You could try adding a light bulb to the track and see if that helps, or add a caboose that has a light in it.

[DMUinCT]

Worth a try, MTH PS2 in Conventional mode.

Instructions say turn the Throttle Knob half way, try all the way, THEN hold down the Direction Button once for 1 Second (per instruction manual) and locomotive should move.

Also, you may have locked it in NEUTRAL.  (if you pushed "Horn Bell Bell Bell" while in Neutral, [or forward, or reverse ] that mode is locked in) .  Try Resetting to Factory Default (Horn Bell Bell Bell Bell Bell) In each case 2 Horn blasts indicates a change has been made.

With a "weak" transformer, try turning OFF the speed control. (Horn Bell Bell).

MTH does list some "coventional" transformers as low as 60 watts to run in "Coventional Mode" but Electronic Transformers are prefered for PS2 operation.

 

[sessal]

I use two of the older CW-80's on my layout. Here are the engines I run with these transformers with no problems whatsoever:

- Lionel Postwar

- Lionel MPC

- Lionel Post-MPC to date

- Lionel TMCC

- MTH Protosound 1 in "conventional mode"

- MTH (No Proto Anything)

- Williams

- K-Line TMCC

Horns, whistles, and bells all sound on everything, as well as Proto 1 freight/passenger announcements where appplicable. I use the "reverse wiring" trick to activate gates and signals with insulated rail sections as the "triggers".

Sometimes I get the urge to hook up my older Powermasters to the CW-80s to operate using the CAB-1 in conventional mode. Everything runs except my MTH PS1 engines with this configuration.

Lou 

[Anonymous]

You don't need to use an MTH transformer to operate MTH trains, but I definitely would not recommend the CW-80 for running any trains other than Lionel.  I use other Lionel transformers, MTH transformers, and K-Line transformers--but NOT a CW-80--to run my trains, including ProtoSounds models, and have experienced no problems.  The MRC transformers also seem to get good reviews, although I don't have one of those--yet.

It's always possible that there's a problem with the locomotive, but my guess is that it's a problem with the notoriously problematic CW-80 transformer.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone so much!

[bfskinner]

My experiece is very similar to that of "sessal." I can run anything in my collection on older model CW-80 EXCEPT an MTH steamer with Proto-Sound one from 1996 or so. (It runs perfectly on my ZW, KW, and 1033.) I have tried all of the suggested workarounds that I have seen on two forums, and have talked to MTH about it. All are agreed that my MTH locomotive will NOT run on a CW-80, so I am puzzled that anyone at MTH would say anything different.

On the other hand, my CW-80 will run my plain-vanilla MTH locos (with a horn but no Proto-sounds) as well as all the Williams, Lionel, and Industrial Rail units (2 handcars) that I own.

The only thing that MIGHT have changed is that there has been "continuous product improvement" at Lionel over the past few years, including a major revision in the CW-80 effective some time in 2006. It is possible that the new CW-80's will run PS-1, but I doubt it.

Nevertheless, in all discussions of "the" CW-80 one absolutely needs to distinguish between the older ones and the new version.

[Anonymous]

Try putting a 100uf 35 volt non polarized capacitor across the transformer cw 80 leads or across the center rail and track ground.. This could alter the sinewave enough to run the MTH engine. To make one from Radio Shack parts,buy 2, 220uf 35 volt capacitors. Solder 2 like leads (2 pluses or 2 minuses) together and insulate.  Using the remaing leads,the assembly becomes a 110 uf non polarized capacitor. People who run TMCC use this for PS1 locos.

Dale Hz 

[bfskinner]

Dale Hz,

Thanks for posting a very interesting suggestion.

[Anonymous]

 

Update:

 Well, I tried the resetting sequence and placing the lighted caboose on the track and she started running like a charm!

 THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!!

Wayray