K-Line tender whistle

[MadMarx]

Your last entry said that you resolved the whistle problem with a Lionel 167 whistle controller. The interesting thing is, the K-Line K-952 whistle controller comes with a wall plug type transformer that plugs into the controller, in addition to the main transformer. It appears that the Lionel 167 does not have this. So, on the 167, where does the 9v ? come from, is there a rectifier in the 167 controller that the K-line controller does not have? 

Apparently so. It is wired, in series, from the transformer to the track and, if I remember correctly, there are some diodes arranged in there in such a way as to resemble a bridge rectifier. 

[ADCX Rob]

The controller with the external power pack was to raise the track voltage ~ 6 volts as the K-Line transformers were at the time self contained w/o whistle controllers & compensation windings.

The alternative was a complicated controller with a choke coil & shunt windings around a simple diode... similar to the Lionel 167/167C which would have been more expensive to make than a China-built wall-wart pack.

The relatively low current draw of K-Line locos, which never had open-frame series wound universal motors, led to the eventual use of the K-952B/ K-952C controllers with a full-wave bridge rectifier, a slide switch("Whistle/Horn" / "Other") and a button to activate.  The full wave DC was enough compensation from the AC that the speed change was minimal if at all, and it was a cheap controller to build.

Rob 

[krapug1]

As a dedicated K-Line operator, let me throw my 2 cents in here.

I have several of the early K-Line 3000 series Steam Engines, all with the short whistle tenders, and they ALL work with the whistle control on my PW, ZW. For that mattter when I used a Z with the 167 external controllers the whistles worked also.

Yes, thet were not supposed to work like that, by mine do, and for that matter the 3 early MPC engines thta have with the trouble plauged electronic whistle, also work off the ZW whistle control just fine.

K-Line also simplified the external whistle control through the years, at first it required it's own power supply, and it was later modified to not require this.

Ken

[Anonymous]

To mad marx, or others,

Your last entry said that you resolved the whistle problem with a Lionel 167 whistle controller. The interesting thing is, the K-Line K-952 whistle controller comes with a wall plug type transformer that plugs into the controller, in addition to the main transformer. It appears that the Lionel 167 does not have this. So, on the 167, where does the 9v ? come from, is there a rectifier in the 167 controller that the K-line controller does not have?

thanks

[MadMarx]

Solution found. An old Lionel 167 Whistle controller works perfect.

[MadMarx]

Well, I got to foolin' around with it and the transformer that would have come with the whistle button probably temporarily switches the A/C current going to the track to D/C by way of a rectifier to blow the whistle. If I hold a 9 volt battery to the track with the transformer off, the engine moves and the whistle blows. So, now I know what I need to do to build a little whistle blower. Thanks for the input. MM

[steinmike]

I also bought one of these engines at a train show a couple of years ago - it was too good a deal to pass up.  The K-952 Whistle Controller puts out a higher voltage than the output from a Lionel transformer, I haven't checked it in a while but I'm thinking that the output is either 6VDC or 9VDC - checking with a old HO power pack would work.  I've been able to run a recent production Lionel "freight" style tender with a traditional air whistle behind the engine, so the K-Line tender hasn't seen much use.

If I have a chance to dig out the K-Line controller this weekend, I'll check the output and update the post.  Enjoy the engine, it runs very smoothly and the smoke unit output is great!

[brianel027]

When K-Line first came out with this revamped steamer, they went with a slightly unorthadox manner of having to use a specical whilstle control button that came with the steam engine. I remember when CTT first reviewed this loco some years ago and rightfully so, complained about this unusual move of not being able to use a typical Lionel whistle button on your transformer.

Most of the standard early K-Line transformers were simple budget affairs that ran the trains effectively alright, but had no whistle button on them. Hence the separate button that came with the loco. Maybe someone else who has had direct experience can chime in here. I have run these steamers and they are very smooth runners, but have never taken the whistle tender apart.

If you have an adjustable DC power pack, you might try touching those wires to the center pick up and one wheel to see how much DC current is needed to activate the whistle. CTT published a book on Train Tips and there's a wiring diagram in there for making your own whistle control button.

[MadMarx]

Hi, everyone. Tho I mainly collect and restore Marx trains, I came across a fellow that was breaking up sets of K-line trains. The steam engine (#3017 w/ tender only) is a beautiful reproduction casting of my old #333's, so I grabbed one fairly cheap. It is a very quiet and smooth runner. Problem is, it's too quiet. I'd like to rig up something to make the tender whistle work, but all my transformers are Marx and a few of the older American Flyer units. Has anyone figured out what voltage (AC/DC and how much) is sent to the track to get it to function and could I actually home-build such a device, or do I need to find a K-Line transformer to do it? Thanks for any help...  MM