I tried to get the block lights working on a MARX 405, but ran into a small problem. I wired it up as per the instructions that are shown here http://www.thortrains.net/maracc6.html for the 405 (with yellow light) The RED light does NOT shut off the track. The green light allows the train to run past at normal speed, the Yellow does slow the train down until it passes and then speeds up again, but the RED acts the same way as the yellow, it does not stop it all, but only slows down.
The #1 wire is the hot from the center track, #2 (not shown is a ground to the outer track rail) and #3 is the hot wire that goes to the center rail on the isolated section of track. )As you can see by this picture of the inside, the #1 wire is soldered to a piece of metal that attaches to a rivet which is the center point for the control ARM that controls the lights. You can see the rheostat arm (R) that you control for the speed of the train to pass while on a YELLOW light. You can see the 3 wires that go up to the 3 colored lights. Each wire is soldered to a button where the Contorl Arm contacts at the top marked with is light color. (Yes, I know the wire going up to the yellow light is broke, I did that when I pulled it apart) So, when it is on the RED light mode, the #3 will STILL get current through it VIA the rheostat... Not being familier with them or how they actually work, how can I test it with a multimeter? Should the rheostat slow the juice down so much that it won't move the engine? because it doesn't...
Now, this may sound like a silly question..., but does it NEED bulbs in it to work correctly? I didn't have any, but I thought I would give it a try anyway.
Thanks
Jim
I don't know for sure, but it looks like the left hand connection between the rheostat and wire number 1 doesn't belong. I suspect that, if you did have lamps in it, the green would be on all the time. Notice that there are fewer turns on the left end of the rheostat. Someone may have unwound them and used the extra wire to make the connection. You could disconnect the left end of the rheostat and see whether that fixes it.
Bob Nelson
No, the green light would not stay lit, as the connection for the green "light bulb" would need to be completed. You see the very thin lines I drew in with the colors? those represent the handle that you move for the manual switch. In the photo, you can just see the top of the handle on the RED light. I have TWO of these lights, and neither of them work. They BOTH do the same thing letting the train go by with it in the STOP/RED position. I did a continuity test on the light bulb sockets, and that DOES work, so the lights would work (if they were in) as the way the manual handle would point. The only thing I find that is wrong, is when it is in the RED/STOP position, the engine goes through the red light. I think it has something to do with that rheostat wire or the whole thing... whether both of the lights have been "messed" with or not... I don't know for sure.
Bob, I got to thinking about what you said about that wire didn't look right soldered to the #1 spot... so tomorrow, I think that I will un-solder the left side rheostat wire from the #1 post, and then re-solder the rheostat wire up on the top center solder joint where the YELLOW light bulb wire attaches. This should also take up the "extra" wire that you noticed. This way, the manual switch arm which gets it's power from the #1 post at the rivet in the center would supply (when in the caution yellow light mode) the YELLOW bulb with juice, and also would send power down to the rheostat and exit VIA the #3 wire. I will have to give this a try tomorrow, and I will post my findings. Does this make any sense to you?
Jim, after you take the left end loose but before you connect it to anything else, try it that way.
Next morning:
I rummaged around in my Marx-signal drawer and found one of the same signal. It has the same connection as yours. Here's what I now think is going on: The full rheostat resistance is intended to be in series in the red position. As I recall, a two-position Marx e-unit cannot be turned off; so you would need some current, even when the train is stopped, to keep it from cycling. That connection is probably intended to do that.
But, when you switch to yellow, the wiper is meant to tap the resistor somewhere else and reduce the resistance, so that the train only slows down. I haven't opened mine up; but I can tell with an ohmmeter that the wiper has no effect. So mine would have the same (higher) resistance in the red and yellow positions, just like yours.
I think that, if the signal were working, the setup procedure would be to adjust the transformer high enough that the train runs on green, but low enough that it stops on red, then adjust the rheostat so that it just slows on yellow.
I may open mine up this evening and see whether I can troubleshoot the rheostat wiper. Whatever I find may be the same problem as with yours.
lionelsoni wrote: Jim, after you take the left end loose but before you connect it to anything else, try it that way.Next morning:I rummaged around in my Marx-signal drawer and found one of the same signal. It has the same connection as yours. Here's what I now think is going on: The full rheostat resistance is intended to be in series in the red position. As I recall, a two-position Marx e-unit cannot be turned off; so you would need some current, even when the train is stopped, to keep it from cycling. That connection is probably intended to do that.But, when you switch to yellow, the wiper is meant to tap the resistor somewhere else and reduce the resistance, so that the train only slows down. I haven't opened mine up; but I can tell with an ohmmeter that the wiper has no effect. So mine would have the same (higher) resistance in the red and yellow positions, just like yours.I think that, if the signal were working, the setup procedure would be to adjust the transformer high enough that the train runs on green, but low enough that it stops on red, then adjust the rheostat so that it just slows on yellow.I may open mine up this evening and see whether I can troubleshoot the rheostat wiper. Whatever I find may be the same problem as with yours.
Bob, You don't have to open yours up if you don't want too... but you will probably find rust on the rheostat wiper pad. That sounds really logical how you explain it and WHY the rheostat wire is on the "HOT" side. Seems like it is very critical.... I wish someone had original instructions for the 405, and maybe they would explain "why/how" these were wired this way and how to set it up on your layout. I just now came up from the basement and I DID remove the Rheostat wire from the "hot" side, but I did NOT solder it anywhere else. It is just hanging in "limbo" on the inside of the light tower. (no tangs have been bent back yet) However, I do have good news, it now works fine! The engine drives by at normal speed on green, it DOES slow down on Yellow, and it DOES stop on RED. I did notice that it is kind of fussy on the "yellow" speed. It all depends on how many cars you are pulling or the engine speed. IF I run just an engine, I can set the engine speed and see how it goes through on yellow. If it is too fast, I reduce the rheostat almost all the way back and this slows it down. BUT, if I add cars, then, I need to turn UP the rheostat to make up for the extra amp draw. My engines are a Polar Express set (which I haven't run on the 027 track I have setup) a 242 that runs pretty good with only 2 or 3 cars. I think it needs new brushes and springs (these are the really small skinny ones... and yes, I have cleaned the brushes, but the springs look black) and I have a 1110 which runs faster with more power and pulls as many cars as I want, but it is noisy. ("electric motor noisy"). Right now, I have the engines set up to lock out the reversing unit with the switch on top of the engines, and this keeps them from backing up when it hits the red light. I think it is a neat part of a train setup, but can be a bit of a bother to keep adjusting it for different engines OR the same engine with different amounts of cars. BUT, then again, how many times do you change cars or engines? Once it is set up, it probably will stay that way for a while. Now, I need to get some bulbs... would Radio Shack have that type of thing? OR a Lionel Dealer??
Sounds like you've got it pretty well figured out. You could replace the rheostat with the bridge-rectifier modules we've often talked about on the forum, to eliminate the effect of the load current on the track voltage; but it would probably still need some tweaking from time to time and train to train.
The lamps of course need to be colored. I doubt Radio Shack has any. That will be a problem, particularly getting the yellow, since most toy-train signals have only red and green. Perhaps someone can suggest an internet source.
I think it's nice that you've been able to get such an old accessory to work so nearly the way it was meant to.
Bob,
My local Radio Shack doesn't have colored bulbs. If you need to, go to a store like Michael's and buy some glass stain. I haven't tried the glass stain on bulbs, but I remember Ray Plummer mentioning it in an article in CTT a while ago.
Thanks, I have to mention, that I have TWO of these, and I hooked the 'other' one up (the one I didn't unsolder), and using my 1110 with 4 cars, it does work as it is supposed to. It stops, slows down and goes normal speed on green. Bob, you are correct in saying that it is supposed to feed some power to the track to keep it from reversing; the engine DOES HUM while in the stopped mode and does NOT reverse (with the lock out switch off even). HOWEVER, my problem is, when I switch the light to green the engine won't go and I have to "nudge" it with my hand. I didn't have to do that when the rheostat wire was off the other end on the other light. Maybe it would work better with more dependible engines. It does seem to work better with the wire off, and the reverse switch locked out on the engine. I do like to get the old things 'going' again. I have a Log Loader for American Flyer that I got working the other day too. I am missing the roof for the building, but I think I will make one out of a soup can. That has ridges too and will represent the original one. Yes, I have AF trains too.... Not set up but, on the shelf and well.... we'll see.
Thanks for the help and advice!
Jim, Also, thanks for the idea of glass stain for the bulbs.
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