Comparison of Lionel 175W TW to the 180 Brick ?

[A&Y Ry]

I run via TMCC/Cab 1 on five 13 x 28 ovals on two airborne shelves [7'-6" & 9'-0" H.] powered by five 180 watt PoHos directly wired to track thru fast-acting cartridge fuses in a 6-position fuse block[1 direct common, 5 fused hot positions]. The set up is a "run around and round" and train display layout that gets a lot of continous running [except when wife is watching Oprah or Soaps--the shelves are in her 18' high kitchen open to the Den].

As noted in a post above I have found that the 180 PoHo's breakers trip rapidly---much quicker than the "fast-acting" 0-15 seconds rated trip time of the Potter-Brumfield type breakers I have used in Breaker Boxes, are in TPCs, etc. However, I feel that properly sized fast-blow fuses give some degree of better/quicker protection for engine components upon derailment than breakers which are basically for transformer protection.

I recently had a derailment when I "stringlined" the first 8 hopers of a 30 car coal train. The fuse blew and the PoHo tripped. The 5 Pohos replaced 3 pw ZWs with questionable breakers, which is why the fuse block was installed years ago.

[as an example in sizing fuses---on one track, I run a 30 car hopper train with lighted caboose pulled by a MTH Challenger equipped with TM/RS. Based on my ammeter reading at medium speed I have recently determined that a 5 amp fast blow fuse is proper protection for the train--it will blow before the 10 amp PoHo trips].

[ADCX Rob]

If running in a solely TMCC environment you only need the PH (brick), a base station and a TMCC Direct Lockon.  The Lockon provides overcurrent protection.

Roger, Isn't the TMCC direct lockon a reccommended item that can be eliminated by another source of in-line protection.

Circuit protection, & equipment protection should be part of the package between the bricks & the track.  A PM-1 set to TMCC/Command is another option.

Rob

 

[ADCX Rob]

Roger,

That is interesting to know!  Will it work with DCS as well?

I have one track active with DCS right now and looking to make another track active soon.

Lee F.

The TIU doesn't really care what the source of fixed AC is for DCS operation, so the Lionel Bricks will work fine.

Rob 

[A&Y Ry]

The DCS TIU's four channels are each rated for 180 watts capacity so it seeems to me the 180 watt PoHo is a perfect power source.

Although as a practice I use cartridge fuses for protection, in my experience with the POHOs, the circuit breakers are very sensitive and offer good protection.

[dougdagrump]

If running in a solely TMCC environment you only need the PH (brick), a base station and a TMCC Direct Lockon.  The Lockon provides overcurrent protection.

Roger, Isn't the TMCC direct lockon a reccommended item that can be eliminated by another source of in-line protection.

[phillyreading]

Roger,

That is interesting to know!  Will it work with DCS as well?

I have one track active with DCS right now and looking to make another track active soon.

Lee F.

[Roger Bielen]

If running in a solely TMCC environment you only need the PH (brick), a base station and a TMCC Direct Lockon.  The Lockon provides overcurrent protection.

[phillyreading]

I thought the power brick needed a ZW case to be used, the new ZW is supposed to control the brick's output.

Lee F.

[johnandjulie13]

Hello Doug:

I have an old TW and I love it!  Having said that, the TW was designed to run one train and a bunch of accessories.  Others with more electrical knowledge will give you a better answer, however, I do not believe you can get 175W from the TW on to the rails.  If you need power to the track, the brick would be better.  I believe you can get about 135W of useful power to the track using the TW.

Regards,

John O

[Chris F]

Lionel's description of the TW as a "175W" transformer is a bit misleading, even by Postwar standards.  It's actually two 90W transformers in one case.  One provides variable power (7-18V), while the other provides fixed power (14V, 18V, and 25(!)V).  Like the 1033, the continuous power rating would be 60W per transformer.

OTOH, the 180W rating for the brick is actual output, so it can provide about three times more power than one of the TW transformers.  This certainly would be helpful if running long passenger consists.

Also, the TW's minimum variable voltage is a bit high for modern, can-motored locos (unless you like running your trains along the ceiling at warp speed.

[dougdagrump]

Currently using a TW for the ceiling track but was considering replacing it with the 180w brick. The brick would be used for TMCC and a MTH Z-1000 for the few Proto 1&2 engines that I have as well as my conventionel locos.

Are there any worthwhile gains in going to the brick vs the TW ?