Gargraves Switch De-railments

[Eldub]

I am building a new layout with both S and O guage.  I have bought all new gargraves track and switches.  Problem is:  many of my locos, both Lionel and A/F de-rail when passing through the turnout, obviously, begins with the leading trucks.  It doesn't happen with the diesel engines.  Any suggestions as to how to fix the problem.  A few of the locos do make it but not many.

Thanks,

Larry

[Roger Bielen]

I had the same problem with older Gargraves, that's why I went with Ross, but I thought they solved the problem with newer production.  My problem was the frog was too shallow for the flanges on the wheels.  I deepened the frog using a Dremel and it solved the problem.

[phillyreading]

Larry,

Track alignment will throw off a GarGraves switch or cause derailments, the track must be 100% level (NO uphill or downhill)when using GarGraves switches. Before filing or using a dremel tool make sure the track is level!!

If you are new to GarGraves track it will take a little bit of practice but usually no filing is needed at a switch. I have had to shim the track on one side undeerneath before or after a switch before to make the switch work correctly.

Another possibility because I did this, DON'T mix track types near a switch, example-Lionel O gauge track to GarGraves using adapter pins at the switch is another cause for derailment, try to wait for two track sections before changing track types, applies to S gauge also!

Another thing that I did with GarGraves switches was to hook them up to DCS-AIU, the hot wire goes to the switch and the negative wire goes to the AIU and return wires go to the switch from the AIU from 1 or 2.

Lee F.

[palallin]

I've used two old and one new Gargraves O100 switches on my layout, all three of which are on a grade, one of which routes the main through the turnout leg.  I have had very few derailments with them.  Most of my rolling stock and motive power is modern era Lionel.  The swtiches are rough (but probably not much rougher than real ones are).  Alignment of the track is important.

 

Are the engines derailing anywhere else?

[phillyreading]

When I say level I mean that the track must be level with the table, you can use GarGraves switches on grades but the track must be level with the table.  Also make sure that if you cut a section to fit that the ends are smooth and no small pieces sticking up to cause a derailment.

Larry, hope you know that GarGraves track has all three rails insulated in O gauge unlike Lionel or MTH or K-Line or Williams track.

Other little tips; I have used S gauge insulating pins with GarGraves track but cut down the width just a little, I use GarGraves track clips for power as I can put the clip anywhere and hide it easier than Lionel power lockons, also I have painted or putty'd over a power clip to hide it. For drilling screw holes in GarGraves track I went down a size in the drill bit to 7/64 of an inch and that keeps the wood ties from splitting as easy.

Lee F.

[Eldub]

Many thanks, it makes sense.  I was even thinking of inserting a washer between the chasis and pilot trucks to move it down.  Your suggestion is better.

LW 

 

[Eldub]

Hey Lee:

 

Thanks so much for taking the time.  I will check alignment again.,  I have spent a lot of time designing the track plan, laying the road bed and then laying the track.  I have wired the track in blocks and sections with out clips, but directley to the rails from under the the roadbed and have checked all of the electric.  In a few places I have to bring power to an inside switch rail, but that is no problem. 

I have no de-railments other than on the transition switches from the two mainlines. 

I have gargraves track connected to all of the gar graves switchs.  I have 7 "O" switches and 8 "S" in gar graves and am using 1 vintage A/F. no problem with it.

Thanks again.

 

Larry 

 

 

[Eldub]

BTW, all of my derailments are post war locos.

 

LW

[poppyl]

Lee's advice is very good but even with proper alignment, you may still have a problem with the front trucks of steamers.  The way you are describing the problem, I can almost assume that you are talking about GG's O42 switches. 

Once you check your track alignment, push the loco through the switch by hand.  You may notice or feel the loco hanging up as the front truck transitions from rail to plastic across the switch.  You may notice that the plastic edge extends inside the track just a little and that the angle is very sharp.  That's what needs to be sanded/filed back to make a smoother transition for the truck wheels.  This is often a process of sand and try for a few times until you fix it.

Another problem with the GG switches is that the plastic guides may be higher than the frog.  This will cause the loco to jump as the roller hits the guides.  Since the front truck is light, it may derail when the loco jumps.  File or sand down the guides.

I fought this problem with the GG O42's before switching to Ross.  In all fairness, the larger GG switches that I have do not exhibit any of these problems.

Poppyl

[Eldub]

You are correct.  They are 042 and 42S respectively.  I'll take it slower.  Seems like the nature of the light pilot trucks and height and depth are the issues.

LW 

 

 

[phillyreading]

Putting a washer in may not help, try to add a little bit of weight to the front end of the locomotive even inside the shell but up front.

With GarGraves look closely at the rail alignment going into the switch at all three tracks, it may be trial and error but rail alignment with GarGraves is a big issue at switches.  Don't have S gauge switches by GarGraves but have S gauge GarGraves track and A.F. switches and some K-Line S gauge track.

I have added weights or magnets to steam loco tenders, some of Lionel's tenders over the years (MPC era) were too light.

BTW; has anybody read the post about modern Lionel 022 switches? Sounds like a horror story starting to unwind with Lionel switches.

Lee F.

[Eldub]

Lee:

 

I'll try the weights, also it brings to mind that I will check the distance between the wheels on the axel in case they have moved.  BTW I am in Tokyo today and return this week-end.  I have found a train shoppe here over the years.  They mostly have HO and N gauge, makes sense due to the amount of space people have in the homes.  In any case, they have a grab bag box, that often times has post war Lionel.  I found an absolutely pristene Bangor & Aroostick Box car for equivelent of $13.  Doesn't happen often, probably stuff left over from Military guys or whatever.  I didn't get by this trip but will be back in July.

 

Larry

[poppyl]

Larry;

If you fiddle with the GG switches, I'm reasonably sure that their performance will improve for you.

Another factor for steamers and these switches is the speed under which you go through the switches.  In a perverse sort of way, faster is better because the greater centrifugal force generated by a higher speed "throws" the front truck and wheels away from the offending plastic ridge.  Of course, there are some tradeoffs -- if the rollers are also hitting something, the loco will really jump, and rails connecting to the switch can work out of alignment unless they are screwed down or secured by ballast.

Poppyl