signals, signals, signals

[nickt22]

 

I was looking through a CTT the other day and I noticed the signals on the Great Northern layout in the December 06 issue. I wasn't even planning on including signals on my layout, and I haven't purchased any. I saw how they can add a sense of realism to the layout, and block signals actually aid in operation. What are logical locations on a layout to place signals

[csxt30]

A dwarf signal is one of my favorites !! Place it near a siding for a train to get the signal to come out on the main, after the switch has been thrown !!

Thanks, John

[johnandjulie13]

There was a Model Railroader issue this past year that addressed signals on a layout.  In addition, the size of your layout may dictate placement of some of the signals.

Regards,

John O

[csxt30]

 

I almost forgot I had this web-site you may want to take a look at !!

http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/railhom.htm

Thanks, John

 

[luther_stanton]

As John mentioned, I use a few dwarfs on my mainline switches to indicate which way the switch is lined - green for mainline and red for siding.

I also set up "blocks" on my layout and placed signals for each block, except one that is "dark territory" Dark territory is what the prototypes call areas without signal protection.  In actuality, when all the blocks were laid out on my layout this was the one left and it was only 4 pieces of sectional track.

I only run trains in one direction,so I did not put signals at both ends of the block.

The blocks are typically divided up by my "extended passing sidings".  These are really more than just passing sidings - one has numerous sidings with operating accessories and the other has a passenger station and the entrance to a yard.  So each passing siding becomes a block and each mainline adjacent to the siding becomes a block.  Each section of mainline between passing sidings is another block.

Each block is an isolated outside rail which ties to the signal.

For entrance to a passing siding I used some of the MTH Cantilever signals.  They give you two heads with a single installation.

For the exits, where the two tracks become one, I am using various Lionel and MTH signals.  After using both manufacturer's signals, I like the MTH signals better for two reasons.  The seem much brighter to me when driven by 12 volts.  Second, the MTH signals automatically show yellow for a few seconds when transitioning from red to greenwhich is a nice effect.  For dwarf signals, however, I prefer the Lionel version.

There is a decent book on prototype signalling by Brian Solomon:

http://www.amazon.com/Railroad-Signaling-Brian-Soloman/dp/0760313601/sr=8-1/qid=1169903983/ref=sr_1_1/104-0047067-5193530?ie=UTF8&s=books

The book definitely covers the history and operation of prototypical signalling, but does not really have any discussion that I recall on where signals are typically placed.

- Luther

[wchrisyoung]

I am using the Z-stuff Signals.   Some of the my layout has the semaphores and some of it has the pennsy style signals.      Below is the first set of signals I installed last fall.   I have them in a series by the main station and going down the line before the tunnel.

 

Chris

 

[phillyreading]

A good place for signals is before and after a switch siding and near a highway crossing.

I have seen signals placed about every two miles on a single track down here in south Florida, FEC.

Lee F.

[Frank53]

This is turning into a real hot button for me, as I need to resolve teh style of signals I will be using befor I get too far. Also, at least on the upper level where I am working now, I have a pretty serious space issue.

As much as I want to keep the post war flavor of my layout, I won't be using any post war signals, road crossing, etc as the are just overwhelming in size. I need to select a signal manufactirer and style and then figure out what I need. The local hobby shop claims the LHS signals are pretty scale in size and use sensors for train detection and triggering.

On the top level, I'll want to include a crossing gate here:

Also, considering the two tracks on my top level share the reversing loops at each end, I would like to include signals at the approach to each loop. Do signals have the ability to signal actions, such as killing the power to a track if the loop it is appraoching is occupied?

I know nothing about signals in real world operation, and am definately going to need some help.

[phillyreading]

Frank53,

You will need switches or relays to control power to a track section, the signal will only tell you what direction or if there is power to a section. You can use relays along with the signals but you will have to wire it as such.

DZ Industies makes signals and relays for 0 gauge trains, try Ross Custom Switch website to order DZ Industry stuff as DZI sells to retailers only.

Lee F.

[csxt30]

Frank 53 : I would also check out the Atlas 21st. Century signal system. It says a sensor determines when a train goes over a block, it avtivates power. Not sure if they mean power to the track or power to a signal. Perhaps others will know. This link below came came up on their site & tells a little about each signal. I know they have a signal package too.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/ato1/items.asp?CartId={7D0DB181-EVEREST8987-4D91-BA5C-0A72A73CD36A}&Cc=075&Bc=

Thanks, John

 

[Frank53]

Lee:

Thanks for the link, my head isalready spinning.

John:

Thanks also. They are really nice signals. Didn't see a road crossing, which is one of the things that I guess is frustrating me. I want to try and stay away from mixing and macthing stuff from different manufacturers., as they all have a different look, different bases etc.

This'll take some work . . .

[Roger Bielen]

The new Z-Stuff signals are good looking and they don't need any type of activation track/device.  They have the IR sensor built in and when an object reaches it the signal activates.  All you need to do is connect it to power.  The light signals also have the yellow with a timer circuit before going back to green, don't know about the semiphore.

[Frank53]

This is from Z-Stuff:

looks a bit bulky, base-wise, but it's the nicest one I've seen.

Likewise, they have these:

no signal bridge or taller signals however

[csxt30]

This is from Z-Stuff:

looks a bit bulky, base-wise, but it's the nicest one I've seen.

Frank ; I remember an article sometime back where a guy took the base off of the crossing signal & mouted that under the layout. It really looked nice then. I'll start looking for the article !!

Thanks, John 

[Frank53]

good point John, probably not too tough to do.

Thanks for the tip.

[yallaen]

Are you going for realism? On the UP, there are Absolute (or control point) blocks at every switch. THese are controlled by the dispatcher. Each switch has a signal facing oncoming traffic...so if you have double track with a crossover, you'd need 4 signals.

About every 2 miles (approximately), there is an intermediate signal. This helps keep the traffic flowing between control points. On some areas, there are 2 intermediate signals between the A blocks..sometimes 3.

That's just in the real world...

Me? I'll put signals on the siding I've made, and maybe a couple down the sides for viewing pleasure lol...

 

[tschmidt]

I just found this site and they have some reasonably priced signals.  I don't know anything about them.

http://www.sbsignal.com/Products.html

 I don't think you can go wrong with Z-Stuff signals.  They seem to be a very good company.

TomS

[Roger Bielen]

Frank53, in addition to those you show they now have a search light signal and upper and lower quadrant semiphores, see the latest add in CTT.

For the crossings recess the base into the layout if you can, that's how I did it for a client.  I also used insulated rail instead of the IR.

[RR Redneck]

A dwarf signal is one of my favorites !! Place it near a siding for a train to get the signal to come out on the main, after the switch has been thrown !!

Thanks, John

I never thought I'd say this, but I have to agree.

[Swipesy]

I have 3 Z-Stuff crossing gates and have found them to be very fragile.  If you pull the thin fishing line off the gate you are in for a real treat in trying to reattach it and then get the gate adjusted to go all the way down or all the way up.  Who ever took his gate apart to mount the base under the table is a very patient man.

[Frank53]

Frank53, in addition to those you show they now have a search light signal and upper and lower quadrant semiphores, see the latest add in CTT.

For the crossings recess the base into the layout if you can, that's how I did it for a client.  I also used insulated rail instead of the IR.

that's a good tip roger. My layout is a layer of ceiling tiles over plywood, so I could cut a square out of the tiles and drop the base into the cut out section.

[cnw1995]

Frank53, the latest CTT has a nice listing of Railroad Signal providers on page 41 under Supply List. I'd be happy to email you a summary if you'd wish. There are 12 suppliers with web addresses and other contact info. Some I've never heard of...

[Frank53]

thanks for the generous offer Doug. I will stop by the local hobby shop this weekend and just xerox the page.

oh wait - I actually buy a CTT every now and then, I only xerox stuff out of the other mag.

[cribs1]

If you want to learn more about signals and where they should go, check out the Track Configuration Library on the www.customsignals.com web site.  This shows you typical track layouts and the signals needed for prototypical operation.  It also shows how to wire the system for that configuration.  Train control using the signal system is coming next. 

[kpolak]

There was a Model Railroader issue this past year that addressed signals on a layout.  In addition, the size of your layout may dictate placement of some of the signals.

Model Railroader was a Special Issue 'How to Build Realistic Layouts, it came out about March 2006.  I bought the CTT issue during the same visit to the hobby shop.  Great Issue..also talks about weathering and ballasting track, bridges and trackside signs.

Kurt

 

[4kitties]

I highly recommend the Atlas O 21st Century Signal System.  I will admit that it is more trouble to install than signals that use IR detection, but I haven't found anything that gives more bang for the buck when you weigh realism against difficulty of installation.  The signals are scale size and there's nothing unprototypical to disguise above the tabletop.  All the electronics can go underneath the tabletop if you wish.  Currently I have a total of 8 3-color block signals on my 22x14 around-the-wall layout, and I was able to install, wire, and get them up and running in about 2 evenings.  That includes the additional time spent wiring them for integrated operation, which for me is one of their main selling points.  On my layout I used insulated rails for the entire installation and had no difficulties.  In fact, it took me longer to install insulated rail joiners to define the block boundaries than it did to hook up the signals.  A few properly positioned diodes prevent interference between the block signals and crossing gates or flashers that are within the same block.  The end result is that I have what I believe is the ultimate in realism without a great amount of effort.

Joel