beefmalone wrote:HO gauge a rap thing? that's a new classic!
I think Run DMC and The Fat boys used it a lot........ HO Yeah!!!!!!!
underworld
daan wrote: . . ."Oh, Cute!" Listen, everything which is "cute" is NOT appealing. "Cute" is another word for "too small, too tiny, too unimpressing".. Would you like the Misses call your car "cute"? . . .
"Oh, Cute!" Listen, everything which is "cute" is NOT appealing. "Cute" is another word for "too small, too tiny, too unimpressing".. Would you like the Misses call your car "cute"? . . .
It's not my car she calls cute . . .
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
@allen, you said it right, in combination with a wide landscape, Z scale can be great. But it needs the wide landscape to be interesting. Only then you have the true benifit of small scale.
But building your own locomotives and rolling stock or even just make only the shells, Z scale is very difficult. If you like landscaping and scenery building and use the train to add life, there's nothing wrong with it.
I recall responding to this thread yesterday, but it may have been to an identical thread posted on MR's forum (at least I hope that was the case). Lots of misinformation about Z here, which is to be expected, I suppose. After all, few here have any real experience with the scale, and are prone to repeating the time-worn misconceptions.
Every scale has its share of advantages and limitations. Z is a fine and growing scale with a good number of participants and several forums dedicated to the scale. It's worth checking out what those folks have to say in order to get a more balanced and fair perspective.
The real advantage of Z is the ability to model a whole lot of realistic railroading--with realistically long trains--in settings where scenery dominates and not the trains. The trains are beautifully made, and operate quietly and flawlessly with a minimum of maintenance. Micro-Trains has introduced a track system with built-in roadbed for those who prefer to go that route, and it really is quite nice. New items are being added to that system on a regular basis. Micro-Trains GP-35 locomotives are as nice as anything you'll find in any of the other scales, and they are excellent runners.
The Z niche of the hobby is growing at a healthy rate, and there are a number of maufacturers and after-market suppliers providing a wealth of great products for Z scale enthusiasts. It's a fairly expensive scale to model in--probably more expensive that any of the other scales on an item-for-item basis--but it provides some opportunities for modeling in either limited or more expansive spaces that cannot be approached by any of the other scales, with few exceptions.
I've modeled in Z since the scale was first introduced. I'm an old geezer who wears bifocals, and I sure don't have any more trouble modeling in Z than I do in any of the other scales.
Bob Nelson
daan wrote: "Oh, Cute!" Listen, everything which is "cute" is NOT appealing. "Cute" is another word for "too small, too tiny, too unimpressing".. Would you like the Misses call your car "cute"?
"Oh, Cute!" Listen, everything which is "cute" is NOT appealing. "Cute" is another word for "too small, too tiny, too unimpressing".. Would you like the Misses call your car "cute"?
OMG! All these years when the wife called me "cute" I thought she meant something endearing! I guess size does matter!
Bruce Webster
daan wrote: If you're short in space for a decent layout, don't choose for small trains! Choose a small layout! On a 0n30 narrow gauge harbour with only a few spurs you have a lot more fun than on an oval of Z track. Use the internet to find cupboard layouts or shelftype layouts and try to model in an "as big as possible" scale.............it's better to use a bigger scale, like h0 or 0n30, where locomotives alone can be impressive and the landscape and trackwork doesn't need to compromize for the lack of appeal of the trains itself. You can add sound, weathering and run a small harbour or forrestry railroad on that space. Much more interesting and appealing, much more fun..To me it seems better to have something you can see without magnifier, but give in on the amount of trackwork. You can add sound, lights and make your own trains easily, have a very interesting harbourlayout with a lot of switching action.
If you're short in space for a decent layout, don't choose for small trains! Choose a small layout! On a 0n30 narrow gauge harbour with only a few spurs you have a lot more fun than on an oval of Z track. Use the internet to find cupboard layouts or shelftype layouts and try to model in an "as big as possible" scale.
............it's better to use a bigger scale, like h0 or 0n30, where locomotives alone can be impressive and the landscape and trackwork doesn't need to compromize for the lack of appeal of the trains itself. You can add sound, weathering and run a small harbour or forrestry railroad on that space. Much more interesting and appealing, much more fun..
To me it seems better to have something you can see without magnifier, but give in on the amount of trackwork. You can add sound, lights and make your own trains easily, have a very interesting harbourlayout with a lot of switching action.
I edited this a bit for highlights. Check this website http://carendt.us/ It has many layouts small in size but with lots of action like Daan said. Some of these are in larger scales like O and gauge 1 or G, some are standard and some are narrow gauge. Even the ones in smaller scale could be upsized easily to something in a bigger scale standrad or narrow gauge. Right now I'm trying to work out a design for a gauge 1 (same track as G) with some standard and some narrow gauge track work...and I'm going to be doing this in roughly 4 by 6 feet. There hundreds of ideas on the carendt site from all over the world. Have a look and have fun!!!
No. The watch is bigger.
Enjoy
Paul
You're completely right wilson, but those scales are made to make people think that they don't need space to run them.
Something about modelling in general is making compromises. We have 0 gauge, but we don't mind to compromise in trackcurves or grades. Even 072 is tramrails in reality and we even press a bigboy through 031 curves..
A lot of people think that they need to go "down the ladder" when space is not overwhelming. They assume that a smaler train needs a smaller space. Technically seen, yes. But you don't buy these modeltrains to see it technically. Modeltrains are emotion-stuff and then it's a lot different. A small layout with a small train looks silly and sad. Small trains like N or even Z are very nice on a LARGE layout. These sizes need the landscape and surroundings to impress.
It's simple. A modeltrain starts to be interesting if you can not only look at it, but be part of it. To be part of it, the scenery, train and layout must be appealing and challenging. In small scales, the train alone is not a challange, nor is it appealing. It's simply too small and tiny to leave any other impression then a spider in the sink. In that case something else needs to be impressing and challanging; the scenery. But your layout will in this case consist of an oval and may be a sidespur, let alone you can model half the rocky mountains in the space you have. So the landscape also makes no statement.. The result is an unappealing train in a tiny landscape which makes the Misses utter the "c" word which makes the failure painfully obvious.
Of course we don't mind other persons thinking about it. It's just toy's, but it needs to leave an impression if you want to be happy with it longer then an hour after unpacking. That's why (in my opinion) it's better to use a bigger scale, like h0 or 0n30, where locomotives alone can be impressive and the landscape and trackwork doesn't need to compromize for the lack of appeal of the trains itself. You can add sound, weathering and run a small harbour or forrestry railroad on that space. Much more interesting and appealing, much more fun..
To end where I started, making compromises. With N or Z scales it appears that you don't need to make compromises. That you can have all the trains and a big layout at once, but in tiny, almost not recoughnisable proportions. You have the impression that you can run a big passenger train on your layout, but in reality you only see a colored worm chasing it's tail...
Come on guys. What are these strange letters you refer to? N, Z, and this HO gauge. What is that a rap thing or for Santa Claus.
O gauge!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only way to go.
Heres a 34' X 60" coffee table layout. Big trains, lights, operating accessories.
Z scale has a limited selection of equipment and supplies. Z scale is more expensive than N scale. Especially Marklin. Microtrains is much more reasonable and makes better American prototypes but you are limited to an F unit and GP-38 for engines. MT engines are over $100 discount and freight cars are around $12.00. The couplers and rolling qualities are excellent. The engines are smooth running and nearly maintenance free. Micro trains also sells a reliable Z track system. You will find Z scale to be very futzy to work with and you will need a good magnifier lamp or optivisor hood. Z scale is almost considered a novel due to its size. It can be difficult to get excited watching the trains run because they are so small. Z scale does have a loyal following and modular groups are very popular.
If you want small, N scale is probably a better choice due to a much better selection and ease to work with. The quality and selection has improved drastically in recent years. Good diesels such as Kato and Atlas average $75 and freight cars $15 discount. Steam engines average $120. Some of the low end stuff is pretty decent but you have to be careful. There is no one single brand of good low end stuff.
Like working a large, rather cumbersome watch...but yes it is. Most servicing/repair work is best left to the people that work on them all of the time. Like Daan said, you might want to look at something like HO scale on Z or N track. I don't know what it works out to be in Z but in N it is 2 1/2 foot or 30 inch narrow gauge. You have the benefit of the larger size of HO but running on narrower track. HO on N track is called HOn30, HOn2 1/2, or it Europe it is called HOe. In Europe there is also HOm, the "m" is for meter as it is meter gauge. HOm track is commercially available but more expensive and harder to find than N gauge. I have Some HOe made by BEMO and some older things made by AHM (Roco). Liliput, Brawa, Roco, and Tillig are some of the manufacturers of HOe. www.reynaulds.com and http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/ are two good sources. Good luck whatever scale you choose.
Anything having another appearance then a shoebox is hardly possible to make yourself in this scale, so if you're want to fabricate your own locomotive shells, I would suggest you make a narrow track layout in h0 scale using z-track and locomotives for kitbashing.. That way you are able to make some decent shells without having to compromise on any form other than squares..
The Z trains are awkward to run. A single piece of dust on the tracks and the whole train stops, one sneeze and your train is derailed, and a simple hair can completely mess up your drivetrain mechanics. Z is a no-go area if you want something running dependable and be able to build things yourself.
By rebuilding it to narrow gauge you add wheight and that makes the little trains much more dependable to run with and dust etc are much less an influence on the motion of the train.
But that is my own opinion (after selling the Z-stuff I had after a very short time I had them..)
Compared to pets, Z-scale is like keeping flies or flees as a pet..
Z gauge may give you more room but you almost need a magnifiing glass to work with Z gauge
Lee F.
Classy moniker, G~SnotGun! The funny part is, I almost registered with that very same name! Really!!! My "G" would have stood for Gak, as in Gak~SnotGun. What does your "G" stand for? Gross? Green? Getalife?
Z is definitely the way to go. Smaller but more track options!
Jaabat
Bob Keller
I am about to start designing a coffee table sized layout...
It is my son's 1st layout...
We are going to build it together...
My 1st thought is to go with N Scale becuase it is small enough to have enough track work to make the layout intresting but not so small that my son will find it hard to work with...
I am now toying with the thought or Z scale because it will allow significantly more track work and make the layout more intresting...
I have never worked with Z sacle before therefore I have some questions...
I am going with Diesel not steam Loco's...
We will be kit bashing/creating new bodies for all the loco's and roalling stock. This means that the era and country the rolling stock does not matter (North America or Europe)...
1. Do the trains run well and are the auto couplers easy to work with?
2. Are the loco's and other rolling stock hard to keep in good running order?
3. Is Z scale so small it is like being a watch builder/repair person?
4. How does the cost of N Scale compare to Z scale when it comes trains, track and other "stuff" for the layout?
Thanks in advance for your advice guys...
Mark
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