The Lionel Scout motors are most difficult to work on is extremely correct!! I took the brushes out and tried to clean a # 235, ended up substituting H.O. race car brushes and springs from a couple of pens. Either the brush holders go in correctly or out of sink by 180 degrees, take the holder back out and rotate it one notch. As for center roller wheel replacement on the bottom of the motor unit that is where the new vocabulary comes in for choice words.
I replaced the original motor in my 235 scout with a D.C. motor from a more recent scout with a warped engine frame. My 235 is now a 2-4-0, used to be a 2-4-2.
Lee F.
If you can determine which motor you actually have, Dr. Tinker's Toy Train Parts does carry replacement Scout motor brushes.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I'm sorry if my postings on this caused any distress. I mentioned the writeup that I did not realizing that it was what the Olsen's link for the 1001 pointed to. The facsimile in my book does not have that model number in the margin as Olsen's does, and appears to describe a generic Scout motor.
I am guilty of not following every link that appears on the forum, particularly those to pdfs, which often lead to complete paralysis on this computer and dial-up connection. Nor do I read every topic, usually skipping the fat-chewing variety; so, in addition to misunderstanding an occasional posting, I might miss a few. It is comforting to know that I will be corrected before any irreparable damage occurs.
Bob Nelson
sulafool wrote: Overall, those are horrible motors to work on. If you ever split the case open you'll learn a new vocabulary--probably give Ralphies' dad a run for his money! There isn't much to go wrong inside the frame anyway; you've mastered the brush assembly, so be proud of yourself and leave it at that. Oh, one thing I learned: tho the oil wick looks too long the way it hangs out of the case, don't try to poke it in farther as it will then rub on the commutator and then you will have some trouble with drag and oil contamination.
Overall, those are horrible motors to work on. If you ever split the case open you'll learn a new vocabulary--probably give Ralphies' dad a run for his money! There isn't much to go wrong inside the frame anyway; you've mastered the brush assembly, so be proud of yourself and leave it at that.
Oh, one thing I learned: tho the oil wick looks too long the way it hangs out of the case, don't try to poke it in farther as it will then rub on the commutator and then you will have some trouble with drag and oil contamination.
I should have read this earlier... I already took the motor all apart! I ended up cleaning everything. There was a rust residue on the armature and I cleaned all that off, then, I cleaned the movable field as that also had some rust residue on it. Then, I cleaned all the brass parts, wiped out all the oil, dirt and other foriegn things out of the case. I assembled it put the brushes back in, and it STILL runs the same old slow speed. (at least it still runs ) When I looked at the other motor that was an extra, I seen that the brushes in that one are TWICE the size of the one I took all apart. PLUS, the extra motor runs 4 X faster!! I also noted that there is NO model number on this 242 engine, but the extra engine says 1001M They look identical, except for the brush and spring size. No.. they won't interchange either as the brush holes are too small. Oh well... possibly the brushes and springs are worn/burned out and I can't see that when I inspect them. I am NOT an electrical motor engineer that is for sure!
OH, and by the way... this motor does NOT have a wick in it either...?? NOR a place for one.
Because of this post that I had started, I was even able to get the "extra" motor I had running pretty good today. I think I am an expert now at those brushes! HAHA just kidding! However, I have taken them out and installed them quite a few times now on both motors.
I thought by changing it to SCOUT, it may help others with the same problem I had.
JimM,
Apology not necessary but accepted anyway. Actually, my frustration does not originate with you, but rather with certain old hands who don't seem to read or consider anything other than what they write themselves -- and they know who they are.
wolverine49 wrote:I guess my early-morning sarcasm is too just too subtle. I did post it! Guess I forgot I was wearing my cloak of invisibility at the time.... Bye all!
Wolverine... You are 100% right... and I apologize for missing it. I did read your post, and I even remember you saying "read it carefully" too. However, I just "missed" it first time around, I am sorry about that. This is why I never went to college. I still remember my teachers saying... "Jimmy does not pay attention in class".... Sometime I need bold letters and caps too.... Thank you for pointing it out!
Sorry 'bout that!
I have a "sealed" motor in my 1062 Lionel engine. It also slowed down after it heated up a little. I gave it a bath in mineral spirits (just a few quick dips) and now it operates much faster. However, I am having a difficult time getting oil into the workings. The motor had a 1/2" wick that fell out when I dipped it.
I am not sure how to reoil it inside nor how long it will operate without tons of oil inside so I do not recomend this operation.
Jim H
wolverine49 wrote: Hi guys,Sure wish I had found the page about the 1001. If I had, I might have mentioned it in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of my post above.
Hi guys,
Sure wish I had found the page about the 1001. If I had, I might have mentioned it in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of my post above.
I am sure you would have posted it, but that wasn't even close to the number of train I said I had. I DIDN'T even know it was a 1001 until I looked very closely at the "extra" engine I have. (I am very new to Lionel even though I owned this train for 10 yrs or more and it was old and used when I got it) The print is extremely small too. Now that I read through the pages of the '1001' engine, I noticed that it talks about "WHY" it slows down after running for a while too. It says dirty commutator, oil soaked brushes or burned out brush springs. The service manual really makes it look easy to work on it too. So.... I may just pull it apart again. It really wasn't difficult once I knew how the brushes were to be placed.
That is the document I was referring to. I didn't find it because they apparently listed it under the 1001 model number. All the Scout motors are very similar if not identical. Lionel's practice was to assign a part number that began with the model number it was first used on, then to use that same part number even though the part might later appear on many other models. So having the number 1001 on the motor of a 242 doesn't necessarily mean that that is not the original motor for your locomotive.
As for overheating, you might not have noticed if you've not been inside other Lionel motors; but the armature of the Scout motor is tiny compared to a non-Scout armature. It probably heats up sooner and is less able to get rid of the heat.
Thanks for all the help and the links! I had NO idea it was a Scout. In fact, I never heard of a Scout before other than the ones International made. I fooled around with it some more and I got it running again! However, I still have the same problem of it slowing down after it warms up... Probably just an OLD engine that was abused and never taken care of. Now it is probably in the windings of the motor. The brushes and the comutator looked nice and shiney, and probably didn't need cleaning anyway.
The brushes need to be timed so that the top V clip touches one brush, but sits on a blank spot on the other. Then, on the bottom V clip the one side opposite the one that is not touching needs to touch there, but sit on the on the blank spot... HUH?? yes, it sounds confusing... but I realized that on a set of brushes, you need one wire coming in, and one coming out, NOT two like I had when it would n't run. See link below
I also; I think that the motor is a MODEL 1001 motor. NOT a 242. BUT, to be POSITIVE, I need to pull it completely out of the engine, and I would need to push a pin through. I don't want to break it. (I have an extra engine that did not work, and the brushes were messed up in that one too so I couldn't compare. It has 1001 on the top of it.) The reason I said 242 was because that number is on the side of the actual engine, the train has 242 on the back, PLUS it is a 242 (Wheel pattern) train.
Also, I would like to THANK (the other Jim) for directing me to that website! I did some extra searching, and here is what I found out there:
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/1001.htm
This DOES show a beautiful complete article on the 1001 motor. PLUS there is another smaller parts list/article on the 1050 just in case that is the one I have and not the 1001. I will only pull it out completely if I NEED to.
Jim (jaabat) is famous for his use of understatement. Good luck working on a Scout! I visited the online Library at Olsen' Toy Train Parts and discovered a plethora of pages devoted to Scouts -- but only a few of them had diagrams or "exploded views." The specific 242 does not. One thing I noticed was a general reference to Locomotive 1001. Check it out and read it carefully.
Evidently, the Scout series is unique. For example, the reversing unit is integral to the motor -- not a separate assembly. The brush assembly is part and parcel of the reversing unit. I have never worked on one ; and, after recognizing precious little in the diagrams, don't intend to. On the other hand, synchronizing the reverse-mechanism "gears" doesn't look too difficult as there are really only two positions to keep straight -- forward and reverse.
All electrical motors tend to get warm-to-hot in operation. Some are cooled better than others. When I see a motor slowing down I turn it off and let it cool down -- perhaps lubrcating it if it is dry. Perhaps there is an authority on Scouts here on the forum.
As an aside, I read somewhere that folks who need to run trains continuously for long periods -- as in Higbee's front window -- tend to select Williams' products. I seldom run my trains for more than a half-hour at a time, but that number is completely arbitrary. My rule is, if something gets excessively warm, I shut it down. Good luck repairing your Scout.
Here are 2 links to 2 different scout motor drawings. They both appear to be the same, as do a few more I didn't link. The 242 motor (242-200) parts list has all the same parts as these 2, at least as far as brush and gear equipment. Look closely at the drawings! See the wick over the brushes? Wet it with some oil.
233 Scout motor
235 Scout motor
This is a Scout loco, right? If so, they are very difficult to work on. Consult Olsen's Toy Train Parts site for mechanical drawings of your loco. You might be able to figure out how to get it back together and running.
I thought I would get out the old Lionel 242 engine (not sure of year or model number) I had and get some track cleaned up. I wanted to get the old 0 gauge track up and running before I used my NEW Polar Express set on it. I am planning on a small 4X8 platform (for now). I set up a 50X96 (approx) oval on the floor to get the engine running. OK, so after I put a few drops of oil on the gears, and the rolling/moving areas, the train ran flawlessly around the track at high and low speeds. It even pulled 5 cars with no difference in the speed. So, I let it run for about a 1/2 hour, and I noticed it was running slower, so I pulled off the cars, and eventually, it just ran slower and slower. I noticed the side of the engine was warm so I unscrewed the front and let the engine swing down. The side cover where the brushes are was pretty hot. SO, I thought, pull the brushes and clean them. After removing the cover and the two "V" shaped brass "tangs" and pulling out the brush holders, and that is when I NOTED... these have "gear" shapes.? HUH? Long story short... I imagine that they have to be "TIMED" to the "V" shape tangs? I assume that this has something to do with the "reverse" switch handle on top of the engine? As now the engine will NOT run, but sit there and Hum.
How do you "TIME" the brushes holder for the brushes? IF someone needs pictures of what I am talking about... let me know, OR where can I find info on how to fix it? I have the Operating 0 and 027 trains book, but that only shows the trains where the engine is seperate and can be taken apart.
I changed the title of this post to read SCOUT rather than sealed as later in this post I found the actual name of the engine. This post used to say: Lionel 242 sealed engine HELP
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