Working with Gargraves O-72 turnouts (was: Opinions on modern Lionel O-72 tubular turnouts?)

[Birds]

Does anyone use Lionel's modern O-72 tubular turnouts (65166 and 65165)?   Have you liked them?  Have they been reliable?

I am asking because in searching the archives I came across one or two posts that mentioned some well known problem with Lionel's modern O-72 tubular turnouts.  However no one elaborated on this, and I didn't find any other posts where people were talking about problems.

I know that Gargraves and Ross make switches too, but I already have tubular track and would like to stay with it.

Thanks,

Chris 

[phillyreading]

Don't know about LIonel's new switch for 072 but about 12 years ago Lionel made a switch with section pieces for 031 that could be used by some 042 locomotives the part # is 6-23010 & 6-23011, my personal advice is to stay clear of these switches!!

To use a Ross or GarGraves switch takes only adapter pins to switch over to either, the profile is more like 027 in heigth, you can stay with tubular track with Ross or GarGraves switches.  One differance is the switch machines on Ross or GarGraves and they are DZ1000, made by DZ Industries, the switch machines for GarGraves or Ross take up less than half the space needed for a Lionel Or MTH switch.  GarGraves and Ross Custom switches give you better selection of switches than Lionel or MTH and use less space than Atlas switches, and look more realistic than Lionel or MTH switches.

Lee F.

[Birds]

Lee,

Thank you for mentioning Gargraves and Ross turnouts.  I was able to get some Gargraves O-72 switches worked into my layout!

You mentioned the height of Gargraves track...

At one point I will be bringing the Gargraves O-72 turnouts into a loop of Lionel O-31 tubular and joining the turnouts with Lionel O22 O-31 turnouts (See plan below).

Is there going to be a height problem going from Gargraves track to the Lionel O-31 tubular and O22 turnouts?

The outside loop is all going to be Gargraves.  The inner loop is going to be Lionel O-31 tubular.  The blue turnouts are the Gargraves O-72 turnouts, and the green ones are Lionel O22 (14062/14063) O-31 turnouts.  The long green track section is Lionel O-31 tubular cut to size.

Gargraves = Blue  Lionel = Green

 

 

Thanks,

Chris 

[phillyreading]

Chris,

There may be only one small problem under the GarGraves switch, you will need to shim it a little with either ties from 3R Plastics or you can use popsycle sticks to get the height needed, sometimes flat washers will work but need an insulating cover if used under the GarGraves track or switch.  One other thing about GarGraves switches and that is the switch machines can not be changed from one side to the other like on 022 switches.

Have you used GarGraves track before? If not you will find out guickly that all three rails are insulated from each other.  Also look under the GarGraves switch to see if it has a wire going to the turnout's center rail, not all GarGraves switches will have that.

You can order switch machines or other stuff made by DZ Industries on the Ross Custom Switch website, GarGraves only lists the DZ Industry products.  Between the two (Ross and GarGraves) you can find detailed instructions on how to wire the switch machines and other products from DZ Industries.

Lee F.

[Birds]

Thanks for the heads up about the shims.

I have not ordered the switches or track yet, and I have never worked with Gargraves products.  So I appreciate you sharing what to look for, and about the wood ties insulating the outside rails from each other.

I am trying to add an outside loop of O-54 track with O-72 turnouts to an inner loop using O-42 curves (with O22 O-31 sized turnouts) so that I can expand the range of engines and cars I can run.  The price of the Gargraves turnouts surprised me and made the decision easy on paper, but how they two systems come together is something I am not sure about.

My other option was an outside loop of O-54 Lionel tubular, but then using the O22 O-31 sized turnouts.  To me it doesn't make sense to have O-54 curves and then use turnouts that limit the trains to O-31.

[phillyreading]

Chris,

Far as I know Lionel and MTH only make 031 or 072 switches in tubular. K-Line used to make an 042 switch but I think the track size was 027.  No one that I know, I could be wrong, of other than GarGraves or Ross makes a switch between 031 and 072 for tubular track that is affordable and don't take up three feet of space like Atlas.

For insulating pins for GarGraves I have used S Guage insulating pins that I shaved down just a little to fit GarGraves track, GarGraves makes insulating pins but the pins are hard to find.  Other people say that a wooden toothpick works for an insulating pin for GarGraves track.

Any way with GarGraves you will have to supply a second common to both outside rails, I use the GarGraves track clips(GarGraves # 909-1) for my O gauge track and Squadron Brand Green putty to hide the metal surface a bit, not as noticeable as Lionel's power lockons. By the way I have green(Life Like brand) mats over the plywood table that I am using.

Hope this helps you.

Lee F.

[thatboy37]

Chris,

There may be only one small problem under the GarGraves switch, you will need to shim it a little with either ties from 3R Plastics or you can use popsycle sticks to get the height needed, sometimes flat washers will work but need an insulating cover if used under the GarGraves track or switch.  One other thing about GarGraves switches and that is the switch machines can not be changed from one side to the other like on 022 switches.

Have you used GarGraves track before? If not you will find out guickly that all three rails are insulated from each other.  Also look under the GarGraves switch to see if it has a wire going to the turnout's center rail, not all GarGraves switches will have that.

You can order switch machines or other stuff made by DZ Industries on the Ross Custom Switch website, GarGraves only lists the DZ Industry products.  Between the two (Ross and GarGraves) you can find detailed instructions on how to wire the switch machines and other products from DZ Industries.

Lee F.

 

i use gargraves track and ross switches as i have just switched from fastrack to gargraves and ross. i wouldn't say you cant move the switch machine to the other side if needed to do so. all of my switches are either the regular degree 100 or 101 plus i have 2- 72 degree switches that all came with the dz-2500 switch machine. the only way you need to move the switch is unless you have a track running next to the switch machine, but from what i experienced with them in the short time that  i have been involved with them. is that they can be moved from one side to the other. plus i think thats the new concept of the newer machines being so small and sleek. not to say you are wrong as i don't know which switch machines you are using but mine can be switched from side to side in order to make clearance. like i said thats the reason for the machines being so small so you want have to mave them to the other side. it also comes with detailed instructions the help you wire the switches correctly and also you have to wire them for the non-derailing. which is when the train is coming into the switch and the switch is not set correctly it will automatically switch for you but the thing about it is you have to do the work to get it running. hope this helps.

also you can check out my tread called "i've been working on the railroad" and you can see some of my work and how the gargraves looks.

 

 

 

[fwright]

Chris,

Far as I know Lionel and MTH only make 031 or 072 switches in tubular. K-Line used to make an 042 switch but I think the track size was 027.  No one that I know, I could be wrong, of other than GarGraves or Ross makes a switch between 031 and 072 for tubular track that is affordable and don't take up three feet of space like Atlas.

For insulating pins for GarGraves I have used S Guage insulating pins that I shaved down just a little to fit GarGraves track, GarGraves makes insulating pins but the pins are hard to find.  Other people say that a wooden toothpick works for an insulating pin for GarGraves track.

Any way with GarGraves you will have to supply a second common to both outside rails, I use the GarGraves track clips(GarGraves # 909-1) for my O gauge track and Squadron Brand Green putty to hide the metal surface a bit, not as noticeable as Lionel's power lockons. By the way I have green(Life Like brand) mats over the plywood table that I am using.

Hope this helps you.

Lee F.

KLine did make their 042 switches in both 027 and 0 heights.  Marx made an 034 switch in 027 height.  None of these are in production at present; but the KLine might still be found at some hobby shops and dealers.  Almost everything is available on eBay.

Lionel did (or still does) make an 042 switch in their 027 track line (I have seen these at an LHS).  Lionel said they were going to make an 042 switch in their 0 line - but I have never seen one in the real world.

just my observations as a tubular track user

Fred W

 

[phillyreading]

fwright,

Lionel's 027 switch in 42 inch radius in the past has had clearance problems with the switch solenoid housing &position indicator sticking up and causing derailments of 42 inch and larger passenger cars and locomotives. If the style is like the 5122 Lionel 027 switch it will not work well and that is why a lot of people have gone over to GarGraves or Ross switches, the GarGraves and Ross switches have a very low profile to the track, even the switch machines are right at track height and will permit more engines and rolling stock to pass through without trouble.

Don't know about Lionel making any new O gauge switches, Lionel went back to the 022 design a few years ago instead of the newer 23011 switch.

Lee F.